What Faction's Should be Included?

First of all, the one's from the original game should be included without a doubt. But the first game made a critical mistake by excluding the Tokugawa. The clan that ended up unifying Japan! Hopefully we'll see the Tokugawa make it into this new game.

I would like to see the Date in it as well. Masamune Date was a very dynamic leader. And he introduced the idea of uniforms to Samurai armies. Issuing his troops with black and gold equipment. (This would work well for people programing the game, as it would explain the units similarities.)

Any thoughts on who should be included?

As the Sengoku Jidai campaign of the original release began in 1530, the Tokugawa clan did not yet exist; the family (Matsudaira, of Mikawa) were vassals to the Imagawa at that time. Tokugawa Ieyasu appears very late in the game as taisho of the Imagawa. Technically the clan name should change but I think that would have been awkward from a gameplay point of view.

In the Warlord Edition release, the Tokugawa do appear as a clan in the 1580 campaign (replacing Imagawa), with Ieyasu appearing again as a 6-star daimyo (there are additional campaigns you can play in addition to the Sengoku Jidai: 1530, 1550, and 1580). Honda Tadakatsu appears as one of his generals (in Hizen at the start of the game iirc).

I was surprised not to see the Chosokabe, Otomo and/or Ryuzoji as playable factions in the original STW. The Hosokawa, Asai and Asakura were also significant. I would enjoy seeing these included, though I would be satisfied to see them represented as individuals leading units, like they did in the original STW.

Ah yeah, that's a reasonable point. But in the latter campaign with Oda Nobunaga, Tokugawa Ieysasu certainly would be around.

Yeah, the Chosokabe would be cool to have in it. And the Otomo, Ryuzoji, Hosokawa, Asai, and Asakura would also be great. I would very much be pleased if they let me play as the Asai!

From what I've heard so far the playable clans will be quite limited. : / Maybe other clans will appear as unplayable? (Perhaps this can be fixed with editing or modding.) It's just speculation either way right now.

Chosokabe, for sure. They were originally included in the first Shogun, but left out for the final release. If you peruse through STW directories, you'll find many files pertaining to them that were never deleted...............

Hmm. That's very fascinating. I seem to remember seeing their faction symbol in game in Tosa I think?

The Chosokoabe would be a interesting faction though. :D

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Originally Posted by Tsar Alexsandr

First of all, the one's from the original game should be included without a doubt. But the first game made a critical mistake by excluding the Tokugawa. The clan that ended up unifying Japan! Hopefully we'll see the Tokugawa make it into this new game.

I would like to see the Date in it as well. Masamune Date was a very dynamic leader. And he introduced the idea of uniforms to Samurai armies. Issuing his troops with black and gold equipment. (This would work well for people programing the game, as it would explain the units similarities.)

Any thoughts on who should be included?

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They say 8 factions right now , so I guess the original 7 is is (Oda / Mori / Shimazu / Imagawa / Takeda / Uesugi / Hojo ) the 8th I would guess is Ishiyama Hongan-ji , the seat of power for the chief buddhist faction of the time period. it's wealth easily top any daiymo of the time, and while it didn't have it's own samurai army, it had an endless amount of followers that they can raise and start Ikko-Ikki in other places almost at will. with it's wealth it also can hire some of the most powerful mercenaries of the time.

In the Koei series of the Sengoku era, Ishiyama Hongan-ji is almost always one of the most powerful factions. it make sense that they are in.

Still, just 8 faction is meh. it means they'll either have a ton of blank rebel regions or you'll have completely absurd starting provinces for most of the factions.

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They were originally included in the first Shogun, but left out for the final release. If you peruse through STW directories, you'll find many files pertaining to them that were never deleted...............

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I could have sworn I remember hearing or even trying that if you played the films from the STW folder (I think I was able to do it in some windows application) among them would be the Chosokabe diplomat in the throne room. I could be wrong, but my memory seems to recollect this.

I don't quite understand what compelled CA to leave the Chosokabe Clan out of the original game. I can only think that perhaps the ronin/rebel faction were introduced to take up their slot? Before that perhaps the ronin functioned differently (i.e. not as a faction). I say this because it's strange that the ronin take up a button on the clan selection screen but are not playable. It would have been easy to design that screen with that extra button omitted altogether. This perhaps points to that button being originally intended for the Chosokabe. I am just guessing - I suppose we'll never know.

:bow:

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Originally Posted by RollingWave

They say 8 factions right now , so I guess the original 7 is is (Oda / Mori / Shimazu / Imagawa / Takeda / Uesugi / Hojo ) the 8th I would guess is Ishiyama Hongan-ji , the seat of power for the chief buddhist faction of the time period. it's wealth easily top any daiymo of the time, and while it didn't have it's own samurai army, it had an endless amount of followers that they can raise and start Ikko-Ikki in other places almost at will. with it's wealth it also can hire some of the most powerful mercenaries of the time.

In the Koei series of the Sengoku era, Ishiyama Hongan-ji is almost always one of the most powerful factions. it make sense that they are in.

Still, just 8 faction is meh. it means they'll either have a ton of blank rebel regions or you'll have completely absurd starting provinces for most of the factions.

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Well I play KOEI games too so I'm familiar with the Ishiyama Hongan-ji. They'd be a very unique faction actually. Since all their troops would be clergy and people who follow the sect. There is one problem though. The Ikko-Ikko sect are not Samurai, and the game is about Samurai. I think it might be more likely they might show up as a independant, non-playable faction. But, we could just be suprised and find out they were included, and are playable. :D

I don't think the map will be covered in rebel land like last time. (Rebel's in STW did have real world crest symbols corresponding with realistic clans in those provinces.) But this time, they have to non-playable factions at least. Sengoku era Japan was a very colorful time, full of all sorts of different colors, and symbols, and heraldry. And if the heraldry and atmosphere of Sengoku era Japan isn't portrayed correctly, it won't be great. : /

The more playable factions the better. Hopefully the other clans would be easily modded in. We should be able to play whoever we want. It's Sengoku Japan after all! Anyone could have united the land. (Or at least.... everyone thought he could.) You gotta feel that way in a game like this lol. I hope the Tokugawa are included as well. Imagawa were a powerful clan for a long time, but the Tokugawa were the ones who unified Japan. You think they'd have to be in this one.

There is a danger in "the more playable factions, the better." The more playable factions there are, the more testing and balancing will be required, and the more difficult it will be to get that "right." None of us want to play an unbalanced game. Hence, I think they should limit the number of playable clans to an amount they can effectively test and balance within the scheduled time allotted for the project. Within this limitation of scope, yes, I'd say the more the better.

I think it is important to acknowledge Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi as "unifiers" also. Most historians that I've read, do. The three are commonly referenced together as such because the outcome would not likely have been what it was had all three not done what they did. Tokugawa was the shrewd, patient, and fortunate one who took the final "prize," but it is not likely he could have done so without the accomplishments of his predecessors.

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Originally Posted by Masamune

There is a danger in "the more playable factions, the better." The more playable factions there are, the more testing and balancing will be required, and the more difficult it will be to get that "right." None of us want to play an unbalanced game. Hence, I think they should limit the number of playable clans to an amount they can effectively test and balance within the scheduled time allotted for the project. Within this limitation of scope, yes, I'd say the more the better.

I think it is important to acknowledge Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi as "unifiers" also. Most historians that I've read, do. The three are commonly referenced together as such because the outcome would not likely have been what it was had all three not done what they did. Tokugawa was the shrewd, patient, and fortunate one who took the final "prize," but it is not likely he could have done so without the accomplishments of his predecessors.

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I'm aware that there could be a lot of testing and balancing issues. But sometimes we like a challenge. If a clan only has one province, and it's surrounded by tough neighbouring clans, we don't expect an easy game. But a human player can easily turn this situation around. So I still maintain that the more factions there are, the better. Japan has a lot of history, and a person might want to play as their local clan, or a clan their family was related to.

Balancing won't be much of an issue for this game, except for the starting positions. (How many provinces the factions will start with mostly.) As most Samurai clans will have access to nearly the same units. If they're keeping it to 8 though, that'll just be tragic. I'll have to mod that, otherwise it really just might ruin my game.

Nobunaga Oda, and Hideyoshi Toyotomi are also called unifiers, it's true. As the saying goes, and the child's song goes, "Nobunaga gathered the rice, Hideyoshi made the cake, and Ieyasu ate it." In Nobunaga's day, when he first took control of Owari, nobody was really afraid of him. Imagawa thought he could roll right over him. In that area, Imagawa, Hojo, and Uesugi seemed much more likely canidates for unifying the land than him. And Takeda in Kai, though smaller than his neighbours was quite able and strong, Takeda Shingen had plans on the capital. I hope the game give us that feeling, that we could be the one to unify the land. We could start from one province like Nobunaga, and take control of the whole land.

I think it'll be a fun game, no matter what they do. But I want all the clans to be playable. Think about it, in any game, if you include a nation, wouldn't people from that nation want to play as them? Like Armenia in RTW. Why they were never intended to be playable, is just odd to me... All the clans should be playable. Not just 8.

RAISE FROM THE DEAD YOU COLD THREAD... Ahem...

Now that's better... I simpy don't see the reason to open a new thread for His Excellency the Shogun (though it is slightly disrespecful, I know :stwshame:). Will the Ashikaga puppets, errr... Shoguns be in the game? That's a very interesting question. It could be fun to cope with them...

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Will the Ashikaga puppets, errr... Shoguns be in the game?

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That would be nice. It would be better than one provice claiming loyalty to you when you take it. Some antiquated faction fighting with tradition or the like. That
would be neat! You know, unable or unwilling to get with the times or such. Hopefully the would be manipulating and kniving if history dictates.