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I am a US citizen and happen to be a voter as a Libertarian. I use to lean towards very conservative spectra/ Republican, since I always have had a burning hatred for liberals for some reason and the Democratic party. But the Republican party turn me off so to speak in the past 2 years, so now I went third party route.
Moderate Libertarian I am. What you guys think of third parties?
Burning hatred for...? Must be your crazy Amerikan media. I wouldn't wanna live in the little states down south. It's bad enough here as it is.
If you hate liberals, the worst thing you can do is divert a Republican vote toward the Libertarian party. Third parties serve primarily as spoilers, especially against a united opposition.The most well known example was the Bush/Pero split that let Clinton wiggle his way into office.
Focus on supporting/voting for libertarian GOP candidates in primaries if that is the type of agenda you support, but stick with the more conservative party that has a realistic chance of winning in the general. The alternative, as we've seen in the past two years, is so much worse.
Yes the two party system sucks, but it will take a fundamental change, likely involving legislation, to change it.
I've never been clear on why people dislike the 2 party system. Don't like either party? Well what about having more than two would fix that? Is it really better to have a party you completely support, but that only has control of 10% of congress, than a party you only somewhat support that has control of 55%?
We would have more extremists in congress without the two party system I think.
i have no problems with third parties, i just don't happen to support one.
and i come from a country where where we virtually have three main parties.
a third party?
you mean the republicans and the democrats actually count as 2 separate parties?
one learns something new every day :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Because for starters, both parties been increasing the US debt in the past 65 years.
But this itself is not a criticism of the two party system. Can you show that debt would not have been increasing if we didn't have a two party system? In countries without the two party system, has their debt not been increasing?Quote:
Originally Posted by |Sith|R|AntiWarmanCake88
I vote for third parties and independents in local elections but have yet to see any good third party or independent candidates in past elections at state or national level.
I support third parties, but only when they are in a system that doesn't work against them (AKA a two party system). In America, third party votes are spoilers as PJ said, but in a Proportional Representation system third parties are definitely worth of support.
We have a multiparty system there is no real left or right only thematical spheres, the most rightwing party when it comes to immigration is hardcore leftist when it comes to welfare, and vica versa, the liberal left are hardcore capitalists. They are all third party's really.
Haha someone who believed it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
Welfare is a tradionally leftist theme, the money to support it comes from cutting other leftist themes. No real left or right exists, only the amount of state. In the Netherlands left wants more state and the right wants less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
I would only say this is true for the 'new right', or freemarket right. Historically, a lot of the more nationalist and ideologically right-wing parties have been quite big on welfare and protectionist measures. Remember the far right was always very critical of the international capitalist class, makes sense given their extreme nationalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
In America, we have a multitude of choices in almost everything. Wanna buy some sneakers? There's not only dozens of brands, but a dozen or so types. Ice cream? Hundreds of flavours. How about a Coke? Do you want Coke, Diet Coke, Caffeine Free Coke, Caffeine Free Diet Coke, Coke Zero, Cherry Coke, Coke with Lemon, Coke With Lime, Diet Coke with Lime, etc. Then why are we Americans content with a choice of only TWO political parties? This, say I, is un-American!! Henry Ford would be proud of the current political landscape - "You can have any colour car you want as long as it's black". Why only two parties when we have seven HBO channels? Yes, it is time for politics to join the realities of America today. Politicians like to talk about "change". America needs a new "c" word - "choice".
Third parties will have a serious impact on our country when Americans realize other political parties can screw up America just as well as the Democrats and Republicans and we finally have the guts to vote for them.
That won't happen given the way the US political system is structured and also how any successful third party has it's agenda absorbed and less radicalized by one of the two major parties to steal votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi
So the two party system is why we don't have a warmonger party, a communist party, an extreme environmentalist party, and purely fundamentalist christian party, etc? Just moderate forms of them? Isn't that GREAT?Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I used to be a strong supporter of 3rd parties. As I get older however and find myself moving closer into the mainstream, I find I can't really sustain the same energy and enthusiasm for a third consecutive night on the sauce.
Why is it great that such political groupings have no political representation? If they can get enough votes to get above the minimum (like 2, 4 or 5% as seen in Denmark, Sweden or Germany) then why should they not have a voice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Do to me not knowing what I was doing when filling out my voter registration I am classified as an American Independent or something like that.
Two party system is no garantuee that one of the two wont be a warmongering christian fundamentalist one, just look at the US...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
No secret ballots in America? Does the government know what you vote? That's scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veho Nex
Who you actually vote for in an election is secret. You can set down a party affiliation when you register to vote though, in some states this affects which primary you can vote in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
Why require them to have 2%, or 4%, or 5%? You are denying a representative in congress to a 1%, 3%, or 4% group in that system. If an idea is such that the vast majority of people don't support it, then those that do can either try and persuade them or maybe the idea just sucks you know. If the group is big enough it is courted by one of the 2-party groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR
Don't you think having less influence from small special interest extremist groups is a good thing?
If we denied representation to parties whos ideas just suck, then that would create a whole mess of problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
We don't really do that though...the system is just sort of pragmatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Ideally one could indeed argue that it should be set as low as possible. OTOH there are also some practical concerns which IIRC is why Germany made it 5 % to prevent the problem caused by extremist parties as seen in the Weimar Republic. (technically it is possible for a party to get in with less than 5% but requires winning 3 constituency seats which is rather rare)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
A minimum of 5% might be the best for large nations as regional differences could produce too many small parties. Israel is a good and perhaps a unique example of way too many parties for such a small country.
TBH I do not see that allowing more parties automatically means extremist groups. Nor do I see many of them in the countries I mentioned. There might not even be that much of a difference between them but it can enable a voter to shift his vote to another party or candidate without feeling he is voting for the "other side".Quote:
If an idea is such that the vast majority of people don't support it, then those that do can either try and persuade them or maybe the idea just sucks you know. If the group is big enough it is courted by one of the 2-party groups.
Don't you think having less influence from small special interest extremist groups is a good thing?
Of course it is all rather moot as USA has a separation of powers which makes the Congress not as important as it would be in a parliamentary system.
There are several ways to do it but I just think the voters deserve more choice than they currently have in USA.
I'm a paid-up member of the Australian Greens so yes I do support one and actively at that.
I support the principle of third parties, and in practice I have voted for them when their policies are closer to what I think than the mainstream parties.
~:smoking:
Now I'm not sure you support them, but the popular US choise of libertarians can be acting as special interest extremist groups sometimes. But a representative system gives the abillity to give influence to a party without it getting sole power. I've voted for the greens and I can still honestly say that they should not rule the country. But with enough influence, parts of their more sane policies can be applied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro