A plague of pirates

I know pirates are hardcoded, but in two of my recent games, the seas seem to be awash with them. For a time I didn't think they ever blockaded anyone but me, but I did notice them (very occasionally) blockading AI factions.

What's unusual is the sheer number of them, in my Kyrenaian game they've cleared the seas of every other navy, I don't even dare put to sea myself any more.

I also saw some pirates on land, a half-stack of "Listerion" rebel troops who must have come ashore from a ship. Never seen that before.

It is possible to change the rate they spawn. In one of the files (which i cannot seem to find....I think its descr_strat) you can see the pirate and rebel spawn rate with a number. Higher number is more rare. Put it at about 5000 and you are unlikely to see mass pirate spawn ever. They will be killed off as quickly, if not more quickly than they spawn.

Either move the pirates, or if you are allied with a faction with a great navy, for example the Ptolemaioi, move their fleets close to the pirates...
As for the Listerion troop, it could be an extinct faction navy...

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Originally Posted by Blxz

It is possible to change the rate they spawn. In one of the files (which i cannot seem to find....I think its descr_strat) you can see the pirate and rebel spawn rate with a number. Higher number is more rare. Put it at about 5000 and you are unlikely to see mass pirate spawn ever. They will be killed off as quickly, if not more quickly than they spawn.

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If it's in descr_strat, then it's not save-game-compatible. I'm not really so worried about it, I just thought it was interesting the way they seem to have recently bloomed like plankton!

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Originally Posted by Arjos

Either move the pirates, or if you are allied with a faction with a great navy, for example the Ptolemaioi, move their fleets close to the pirates...
As for the Listerion troop, it could be an extinct faction navy...

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I've been doing that sometimes, but there aren't any AI navies left. Not sure whether that's from pirate-hunting or naval battles with other factions.

There are no extinct factions in any of my games, so the Listerion troop can't be from there.

Those stacks are annoying but you can beat them fairly easily. A group of three to six units of Hellenistic ships (preferrably Triereis or heavier - Trieremiolai are ideal, if you can get them) can usually annihilate a big stack of pirates without breaking sweat. Even a group of six Germanic warship units can destroy a half stack of pirate ships. The only factions facing serious problems wit pirates are the two "Skythian" factions and Pahlava.

Well, its a big bother for the non-celtic barbarian factions as they cant get decent ships. It takes a massive investment to get a fleet capable of taking the pirates out. And its such a large investment that it isnt worth doing IMO.

For civilized factions however you just need to recruit some of the higher tier ships and go hunt them down. Once the backlog of pirates has been cleared it is relatively easy to keep the seas clear of them, its just that first push thats daunting. And there are so many probably because they have come down from the Baltic. They seem to spawn there all the time.

They probably just accumulate in the baltic because of the aformentioned weakness of non celtic ships. In the med they can be destroyed by more naval orientated factions.

As for getting rid of them a nice little use of auto_win attacker will solve your problem very nicely. Especially coz they are rebels and can't retreat.

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Originally Posted by Cambyses

Well, its a big bother for the non-celtic barbarian factions as they cant get decent ships. It takes a massive investment to get a fleet capable of taking the pirates out. And its such a large investment that it isnt worth doing IMO.

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Well, I don't really see the Sauromatae or Saka as great seafaring peoples, so I don't care if they can't cope with pirates. Horse archers may 'rule' on land, but Greeks, Carthaginians and Romans rule on the seas.

Some of the stacks had six and seven ships in them when I started the clearance, no wonder everyone had retreated from the Med.

imo pirates are most annoying for the Sweboz as they actually "need"(you can always ignore the VC and Britain and go for the steppes ;) ) at least some navy face the largest Leisteron popultion with one of the worst navies and one of the worst economies. the Sauromate mainly need ships to travel the pontos euxenies(i prbably misspelled that) which is almost pirate free and can be bypassed easily, the Pahlava could run into problems when getting blokaded on the coasts of persian homeland and could get some problems when endevoring to conquer Kypros(and will most likely not be able to mount an anphibious pillage operation in Asia mirnor and egypt) two regions with just mediocre pirate infestion, and the Saka well, ... they actually don't need warships at all.
Getai get 50ers don't they. they may not be as good as 3,5ers but still better than the Sweboz' Xorixeulōm, I mean, even Lemboi are better than those.

I'd really like to have a bit less pirates in the baltic afterall they are few merchant vessels to loot anyway, as it is navy management for the Sweboz relies mostly on hiding your fleet in a harbor at the end of each turn^^

Isn't the Baltic pirate menace expressly to prevent AI Sweboz becoming an ahistorical seafaring power?

well the AI will most likely not become a naval power as the Seboz^^ the player can become a naval power with enough efford no matter how many pirates there are.

sometimes I have the feeling the pirates actually represent the ruff sea up there.

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

Isn't the Baltic pirate menace expressly to prevent AI Sweboz becoming an ahistorical seafaring power?

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I doubt it, since it seems to be a completely unplanned and uncontrolled event. Can you set localized pirate-spawn values in R:TW?

I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that Gotland is the vanilla Latium province. In vanilla, Latium was the default target of every faction, and it may attact pirates as well.

If your cruise only is a minor boat trip to an island, you can always ferry from port to port. The port will protect your fleet from attacks and if you unload your troops it usually does not matter afterwards if they are sunk.

But really I remember in my Baktria campaign I had a spectacular ending. I had some fleets outside the ports in the Aegean, this attracted the Baltic fullstack pirates all the way to the Aegean. My Baktrian empire already encompassed the world when they passed Sicily. In the meantime I was making Penteres, Tetreres and some Trieres ready in Rhodos, Athenai, Pella and Ambrakia. I combined the fleets as good as I could and placed my massive fleet together.

The Baltic fullstack pirates came in three waves, I won m all and my goals were 100% complete!~D

~Fluvius

If that's such a big issue, move them to the Caspian Sea :)

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Originally Posted by Arjos

If that's such a big issue, move them to the Caspian Sea :)

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I think I tried that once, it's not a valid space.

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

I think I tried that once, it's not a valid space.

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Tried the Aral lake?:laugh:

~Fluvius

well it one cheats to get them away you might aswell just auto_win them, as this is faster and does not require toggle_fow(to get all their names)

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

well it one cheats to get them away you might aswell just auto_win them, as this is faster and does not require toggle_fow(to get all their names)

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It's not faster since it requires you possessing a naval port, having the funds to build and maintain ships, and the time to shuttle around defeating the pirates.

Quicker and simpler to move them.

one ship is totally sufficient, and sweboz are not known for their sea trade.

ps: auto_win attacker can bie copied and repeated, move_character needs a new name every time not to mention the coordinates.

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

I know pirates are hardcoded, but in two of my recent games, the seas seem to be awash with them. For a time I didn't think they ever blockaded anyone but me, but I did notice them (very occasionally) blockading AI factions.

What's unusual is the sheer number of them, in my Kyrenaian game they've cleared the seas of every other navy, I don't even dare put to sea myself any more.

I also saw some pirates on land, a half-stack of "Listerion" rebel troops who must have come ashore from a ship. Never seen that before.

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just conquer west country :clown:

jokes aside, you're going to need a hell of a navy. I hope you don't have anyone harrasing your borders, because I would recommend cutting the army down, to make room financially for a navy.

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Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato

Well, I don't really see the Sauromatae or Saka as great seafaring peoples, so I don't care if they can't cope with pirates. Horse archers may 'rule' on land, but Greeks, Carthaginians and Romans rule on the seas.

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Fair enough, but what about the sweboz and lusos? Those are the two factions that get hurt the most by having rubbish ships as their victory conditions require them to conquer islands. In M2TW you can get mercenary ships, maybe that would be a solution for this problem in EB2?

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Originally Posted by Cambyses

Those are the two factions that get hurt the most by having rubbish ships as their victory conditions require them to conquer islands.

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Good point. Sweboz and Lusitanians should not (under AI control) be required to take islands. Gotland and Balerics should be removed from their objectives.

Gotland is ok, it's more like a puzzle how to conquer it than an anctual naval mission. Albion(while not in the VC) however is a valid target for larger raids and it'd be nice to be able to preform some coastal raids, which is not quite as possible with Leisteron fullstacks of which every friggin ship is stronger than your socalled warships.