How do you feel about the death of AI factions?

I get the feeling I'm in a minority on this issue, that I see the death of any AI faction (in particular one I didn't decide to kill - which is rare indeed) as a failure. The game becomes just a little but less interesting for me if there are now fewer players on the stage, especially if it's one that was historically significant.

I was playing in a semi-historical 1.0 Romani game a long time ago, not paying attention to the AI factions outside my sphere of influence when an announcement popped up that Pahlava was no more. It really took the enthusiasm out of that game thinking that I'd never have the chance to face off against them in a century's time as I'd been hoping.

Since then I tend to tinker heavily with the AI factions (by console commands, Force Diplomacy and raids), with the general aim of slowing down changes in the ownership of provinces and protecting the smaller factions from being steamrollered by the larger.

Its one of the reasons I like seeding random areas with provinces belonging to factions who aren't based there. Galatia and Scorcouw as a way to preserve the Arverni and/or Aedui if things go badly in Gaul, for example. I tend to put serious obstacles in the path of AI rome (like continually boosting garrisons in Mediolanum, Segesta, Bononia and Patavium) early in the game to stop them conquering Gaul by 250BC.

Another real annoyance is the way many factions seems obsessed with expanding northwards. Hayasdan are the worst for this, seeming to want to become the masters of the steppe. Baktria and Makedonia do it too if you let them. I've already mentioned the Romans.

Does anyone else engage in that sort of thing? I tend to notice a lot of campaign maps with the AI run riot, and it is an extra layer of effort to the game. Though I find, particularly the raiding aspect adds something when you're not blitzing or otherwise expanding a lot.

I have mixed feelings about them, I always see it as a nice achievement if the AI unites things. Like take whole Gaul, take whole Hellas, take whole Iberia etc. etc. This usually costs the life of an AI faction. Sometimes I am bothered by this and sometimes I am not. I like to police the world a bit, but certainly not too much. I never cheat.

In my AS game, I FD'ed Kyrene as a protectorate (it was the final Ptolemaic city). However the Qarthadast finished them off and now I miss them a bit. I might have used them to simulate a civil war, because they share the barracks and many troops.

Summed up, it depends on which faction exits, if I feel any pity. If they are my allies however, I will certainly do my best to rescue them (failed in the Kyrene case though)!

If I finish off factions myself, I rarely care. It usually makes me unite something, which I like to do. But for that, we also differ a lot in our gameplay styles.

~Fluvius

Islands are one way to preserve factions, assuming they don't collapse so fast they lose all their FMs outside of the safe zones. Koinon Hellenon has Rhodos which is a way to stop them dying if you haven't taken it. The Ptolemies have Kypros. Karthadastim a string of island provinces which are only vulnerable to the player (unless you're using bi.exe). You could always give another Greek faction Krete. I'm not sure there are any other islands which can't be attacked from land and thus be used as somewhere to stash a defeated faction rather than let them go.

Mostly I just don't like how fast the game changes, left untended you could have three factions gone in 60 turns.

It depends. In general, i tend to not expand before a long time, I stay in Germania, and then expand threw France and Italy, in the "Middle" period (round 220, 200 BC) Between 272 and 200 BC, I skirmish with the gauls and, Rome, who sooner or later comes knocking on the wrong door! If gauls atack me, i role play a punitive expedition, killing the populace and destroying every building that can be destroy, appart of wonders, in the towns bordering my country. If they continue to piss me off, then they're dead, not only I destroy their faction, but in the process I raze to the ground each of their towns and cities, and do not feel any guilt with that. If they bring 3 fm's in the battle, my priority is to kill them. I like when they survive or escape, as it's not my wish, and i get to have a revenge against them. i like to folloow the history of each caracter :P

Well, in general Im happy as the fewer factions there are, the quicker the turns are calculated. Also, if Im growing into a massive superpower its kind of nice to have at least one AI faction that is doing the same, so that the end game can be a bit more competitve and challenging. There are plenty of ahistorical annoyances about the AIs expansion beahviour, but then again the human player is capable of expanding to places that the AI never can, so I see it as a kind of necessary evil in order to give the AI enough resources to provide a proper challenge.

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Originally Posted by Cambyses

Well, in general Im happy as the fewer factions there are, the quicker the turns are calculated. Also, if Im growing into a massive superpower its kind of nice to have at least one AI faction that is doing the same, so that the end game can be a bit more competitve and challenging. There are plenty of ahistorical annoyances about the AIs expansion beahviour, but then again the human player is capable of expanding to places that the AI never can, so I see it as a kind of necessary evil in order to give the AI enough resources to provide a proper challenge.

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Agreed, when I played Baktria I faced a Western Roman Empire (excl, North Africa, Illyria and Britannia). In the future I will face even a bigger one with my AS campaign.

The same went for my Romani campaign where at one point, the world was divided between me and the Grey death. Good times, good times.

~Fluvius

I really don't like seeing factions die...
Sometimes I went to war just to stop one faction destroying another, but in the end the AI ruins everything :P
BTW yes the map must be tilted towards the north XD

@OP: Did you mean to say what* I think* about blabla? or did you really mean feel?

I ask because I have empathy for living beings, especially humans, but not the slightest sympathy for non-living things, except for artwork (which could be in the form of fine arts, performing arts, architecture, etc.). So, in this case, I have no sympathy for ones and zeroes that my computer processes.

When a faction dies, i feel horrible and deeply depressed. I even suffer terrible nightmares, can't eat, or drink, even sleep for days or even months after that. Even now i cry and my face is full of tears; yesterday, Aedui passed on during my Carthaginian campaign :shame:

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Originally Posted by vartan

@OP: Did you mean to say what* I think* about blabla? or did you really mean feel?

I ask because I have empathy for living beings, especially humans, but not the slightest sympathy for non-living things, except for artwork (which could be in the form of fine arts, performing arts, architecture, etc.). So, in this case, I have no sympathy for ones and zeroes that my computer processes.

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I mean how do you feel about it from the perspective of it having an impact on your fun. Not empathising with some fictional entities.

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

I mean how do you feel about it from the perspective of it having an impact on your fun. Not empathising with some fictional entities.

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I know. I am sorry for intentionally derailing this baby. It was only a matter of time before my friend would come and reply with his own fictional account of how such events as AI factions' deaths bring him much depression. I was simply waiting for it.

Now that this baby's back on track, I couldn't give two ***** (I forget, why can't we swear in these forums?) about the death of AI factions. Since I'm a person more engraved in 'reality' than in the virtuality that is Europa Barbarorum, I don't RP much and as a result all I care about is victory, whether that means accomplishing VCs or my 'own' VCs, which of course in turn translates into not caring whether or not and how this or that AI faction is wiped off the face of the planet.

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Originally Posted by vartan

...all I care about is victory...

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Indeed, total annihilation. I don't get why you want to let them live, having a single green, red, white (depends on faction) spot on your map or just one beautiful color either way the faction is of no capability to do something.

Don't you, when roleplaying, got to have at least 2 parties? If you do it alone, it's like playing with an imaginary friend, it's all coming from you. So you know how it ends, you already know everything. No wondering "Hey! How would the war go on between Bactria and Saka?" (with Fog of War on ofcourse, and you playing as Casse) and when you are finally dead you find out Bactria for instance has won, but instead you keep an eye on them and you know no one will be defeated in the end. Sort of an anti-climax

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Originally Posted by vartan

(I forget, why can't we swear in these forums?)

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Oversensitive people.

In a nutshell: I wipe my butt with the AI ( ahem... well, scrap the I)

actually one of the things i hate the most is when makedonia and epirus die in my kh campaigns instead of moving to greater hellas and asia minor and fight and weaken up my opponents

it sucks mainly because then i have to fight the romans and pontians as soon as i have a border and it sucks while if they survive they tend to be less prone to fight me

if playing makedonia it´s also sucky because the kh tends to get hallicarnassus so they keep the seulekids egyptians and pontians all entertained while i build my massive army \o

That's exactly it, I don't want world domination, and I really hate any AI super-power with endless, pointless stacks either of mercs or of elites...
Sometimes the campaings where I play as a little kingdom with the only goal of survival are the most enjoyable...
I love when I manage to keep protectorates for decades...

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Originally Posted by Arjos

That's exactly it, I don't want world domination, and I really hate any AI super-power with endless, pointless stacks either of mercs or of elites...
Sometimes the campaings where I play as a little kingdom with the only goal of survival are the most enjoyable...
I love when I manage to keep protectorates for decades...

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Goal of survival? What's there to survive? Are there that big a threats in your campaign?

Feelings?


It depends. If an AI-faction on the other side of the globe get's wiped out, I don't care. The only thing that goes through my mind is: who gobbled them up, and who'll I be fighting when (and if) I finally make it to that part of the world? As I play with fog of war and I mostly don't bother exploring faraway territories, the death of a faction is often the only bit of information I've got from them. Why should the Arche Seleukeia even be bothered when tribes like the Arverni perish?

If it's an AI that put up a really good fight, which massacred legion after legion, I'm happy. The faction went down in an heroic struggle. Nothing wrong with being exterminated that way. Whether the Lusotanni or the Aedui deserved any Roman mercy is for historians and/or filmmakers to decide.

If it's an AI that didn't put up a decent fight, I feel sorry for 'blitzing'. I'm even likely to leave them alone. Contrary to others, I don't punish the AI for organizing kamikaze-missions against my well-defended outposts.

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Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus

Agreed, when I played Baktria I faced a Western Roman Empire (excl, North Africa, Illyria and Britannia). In the future I will face even a bigger one with my AS campaign.

The same went for my Romani campaign where at one point, the world was divided between me and the Grey death. Good times, good times.

~Fluvius

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I am exactly the reverse, as you have already seen in my thread. A western roman empire excluding africa, spain, illyria and britannia VS a massive, evil AS of doom. Maybe the AI is channeling a bit of fluvius? Its certainly going for a World Conquest.

As for AI faction death? I cause most of them. I will specifically chase a war all the way to conclusion in an effort to beat them, ignoring convinient rebel territories until I control the entire area. I find that I have developed a bit of a taste for all the pretty 'faction defeated' popup screens. Plus I hate being attacked by the enemy.

I don't like AI factions being killed off by other AI factions, and I will do what I can to prevent it.

The only power that has the right to kill off another faction is me!

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Originally Posted by Drunk Clown

Goal of survival? What's there to survive? Are there that big a threats in your campaign?

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It's quite fun, one as the Getai was pretty hard, but the best one for me was to play as the Luso with the only goal to control Hispania except the mediterranean coast ^^
While with any faction in Hellas it always ends up with me conducting punitive expeditions both in Illyria and Asia Minor to "free" the Greeks...

Whats Feeling????

I rushed all the way to Nubi just to wipe the ptoelemaics off the map ( as EPIRUS) simply because we had an alliance previously and they pissed me off by sinking a hip with a rather important convoy.....(when youd thinkyou have the best navy in the world, the yellow fever strikes ).

Honestly i dont care who dies and who does not. The faction destroyed screens are pretty :P

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Originally Posted by Lazy O

Whats Feeling????

I rushed all the way to Nubi just to wipe the ptoelemaics off the map ( as EPIRUS) simply because we had an alliance previously and they pissed me off by sinking a hip with a rather important convoy.....(when youd thinkyou have the best navy in the world, the yellow fever strikes ).

Honestly i dont care who dies and who does not. The faction destroyed screens are pretty :P

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100% agreement here. Smetimes things call for a bit of vindictivness. Especially alliance backstabbing.

I feel sad and frustrated whenever AI faction dies (the more so because it is usually my fault).:shame:

I like to role-play and have all factins in the game to leave as much options as possible open. Therefore I tend to expand slowly - quasi-historically, which allows me to "police" other factions and when one seems on the verge of being defeated by another, I use to ally with the uderdog and intervene on its behalf. Terefore AI factions rarely kills one another in my campaigns. On the other hand, in later stages in the campaign a stuation almost inevitaby occurs when one AI faction, bordering me and despite being beaten repeatedly in the past, still annoyingly attacks me every turn, making the game (with four or more battles every AI turn and CTD threat always lurking in the game engine) almost unplayable. This is the moment when I regretfully put an end to this annoyance and kill them completely and am pursuit by remorse ever afer. :wall:

Hopefully M2TW/EBII campaign AI will be more reasonable and lasting peace with neighbours will be finally possible.

My problem is also aggravated by my inability to use cheat-console, because I play on a laptop and the tilde key interferes with something else (thank you, Microsoft!).

The only good AI faction is a dead AI faction.

Except the Getai. I cut them some slack. :beam:

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Originally Posted by Frontline1944

The only good AI faction is a dead AI faction.

Except the Getai. I cut them some slack. :beam:

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It definitely helps their case that they never declare war on the player.

But their falxes and rhomphias are not something to be trifled with, should any fool dare to war with them unprepared.....

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Originally Posted by Kikaz

It definitely helps their case that they never declare war on the player.

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Indeed, very curious. I always experience a berserk AI when I border an AI controlled faction, but strangely, the Getai are my faithful allies ever since I saved them from a bloodthirsty Epeiros and gave them back their Capital.

~Fluvius

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Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

Mostly I just don't like how fast the game changes, left untended you could have three factions gone in 60 turns.

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Bro, I feel the same way. When a faction is about to die, I help it migrate to a small, empty corner of the map. I, later, re-name and re-colour 'em.