What is your idea of an ideal society?

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12-09-2010, 18:57
HoreTore

What is your idea of an ideal society?

Let's have a little poll, shall we?

Let's say we create a new country, Backroomistan, and you're the lovable tyrant in charge. If you could decide what percentage of criminals get caught, what would it be? In other words, where do you draw the line between individual rights and the need to protect against crime?
12-09-2010, 18:59
Strike For The South

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Black Hair
Grey eyes
36-24-36
12-09-2010, 19:21
Shibumi

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

I would start by removing the victimless crimes.

Drugs, as an example.

Edit: How do you put a % on this? It's not like we have a clear formula to work with.
12-09-2010, 19:30
Ronin

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Let's have a little poll, shall we?

Let's say we create a new country, Backroomistan, and you're the lovable tyrant in charge. If you could decide what percentage of criminals get caught, what would it be? In other words, where do you draw the line between individual rights and the need to protect against crime?

that is not defined by the % of criminals you want to catch....it's defined by what laws you put into effect.
Capture of 100% of criminals should always be the ultimate goal....I´d just make a bunch of stuff not ilegal any more.
12-09-2010, 19:36
HoreTore

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shibumi

I would start by removing the victimless crimes.

Drugs, as an example.

Edit: How do you put a % on this? It's not like we have a clear formula to work with.

Of course we do. Let's call the number of crimes solved a and the total number of crimes b. That gives us:

(a*100)/b=x%

The laws you have in place will affect the percentage of criminals caught, as will the level of police funding. Giving more cash to the police will undoubtedly make the percentage of crimes solved go up, but how high will you allow it to go, considering the other factors you will have to take into account?

In short, what will be your ideal percentage?
12-09-2010, 21:59
rory_20_uk

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

As Ronin said, I'd start by making loads of things that are currently crimes not offences any more, mainly drugs and prostitution which would instead be covered where required by other laws based on breaching the peace etc.

There were crimes in Nazi Germany, the USSR, Cuba and everywhere else. So surveillance and reduction in rights in itself does not create a crime free society. I imagine the only true way is to make nothing a crime...

~:smoking:
12-09-2010, 22:09
Tellos Athenaios

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Percents like those are for law enforcement agencies with a warped set of priorities. Ronin's approach is much better.
12-09-2010, 22:10
HoreTore

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

As Ronin said, I'd start by making loads of things that are currently crimes not offences any more, mainly drugs and prostitution which would instead be covered where required by other laws based on breaching the peace etc.

There were crimes in Nazi Germany, the USSR, Cuba and everywhere else. So surveillance and reduction in rights in itself does not create a crime free society. I imagine the only true way is to make nothing a crime...

~:smoking:

.....which is why the question wasn't "how do you get rid of crime". Abolishing all crime would mean nobody is a criminal(0%), if that is what you want then that's your answer.... If it's not, and you do not believe that you can catch all criminals, then you belong somewhere between 1% and 99%.

My question is where. ~:)

Figure out what laws and such you want in your ideal society, think about what that society will look like and try guessing what % of crimes in that society will be solved...
12-09-2010, 22:41
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoreTore

.....which is why the question wasn't "how do you get rid of crime". Abolishing all crime would mean nobody is a criminal(0%), if that is what you want then that's your answer.... If it's not, and you do not believe that you can catch all criminals, then you belong somewhere between 1% and 99%.

My question is where. ~:)

Figure out what laws and such you want in your ideal society, think about what that society will look like and try guessing what % of crimes in that society will be solved...

You can't decide what percentage of "criminals get caught" unless you say only the guilty get caught, and everyone caught is guilty, then you get 100%.

You decide what is harmful to society and by how much, then you pass a law restricting/banning that behaviour and setting a punishment.
12-09-2010, 23:14
HoreTore

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You can't decide what percentage of "criminals get caught" unless you say only the guilty get caught, and everyone caught is guilty, then you get 100%.

You decide what is harmful to society and by how much, then you pass a law restricting/banning that behaviour and setting a punishment.

No, none of these things are objections to thinking up a number, as you will just have to factor them in....

But it sounds like you guys need an example:

"40%" is a number usually thrown around when it comes to crime statistics in the US. So as an example, let's start with that society and turn it into our ideal one. Let's say you don't like the patriot act, and you say that removing that law takes down 10%(remember,, this is just an example to show how I'm thinking). You also say that weed should be legalized. In your opinion, this will reduce the number of criminals, which will in turn increase the percentage of caught criminals(since weed-related stuff won't be a crime anymore). You say that takes it up 25%(allright, percent-points to be exact but who cares), giving you 55% now. Then you envisage increasing the funding of the police quite a bit, which you believe will be about half as effective as legalizing weed, so adding another 12,5% giving you a grand total of 67,5%.

And so you vote "60-69%" and give me the results I'm looking for :smash:

If my intention still isn't clear I'll happily explain further....
12-09-2010, 23:32
ajaxfetish

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

I'm not sure what the results will show, since the methods and results (such as those in your example) are so diverse. It seems the changes to laws and enforcement techniques would be much more relevant and meaningful than some final number you arrive at, especially since the changes in percent caught are all wild guesses anyway.

Ajax
12-09-2010, 23:35
Shibumi

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Interesting how people have talked about what laws to remove, but no one mentioned adding laws.

One wonders if this has significance.
12-09-2010, 23:49
Beskar

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

In my ideal society, no one would commit crime in the first place, so the question is pointless.
12-09-2010, 23:56
HoreTore

Re: What is your idea of an ideal society?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

I'm not sure what the results will show, since the methods and results (such as those in your example) are so diverse. It seems the changes to laws and enforcement techniques would be much more relevant and meaningful than some final number you arrive at, especially since the changes in percent caught are all wild guesses anyway.

Noone's stopping you from explaining your reasoning(and this being the backroom, I figured that will happen automatically anyway, like it has already...).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beskar

In my ideal society, no one would commit crime in the first place, so the question is pointless.

Certainly not!

Put yourself down for a "0" ~;)