Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
Good day fellow EB-Fans!
Ok, the averni are grinding my elite armies with their solduros and brihentin , so I wonder which are - from you experience - the best swordsmen for the Lusos?
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...inaca_INFO.jpg
vs
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...tarii_INFO.jpg
vs
Callaeci Medium Infantry
vs
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...ratii_INFO.jpg
(vs)
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...akaro_INFO.jpg
I think I will restrict my self to only one or two (whats more appropriate?) Ambakaros, because they are elite.
Btw: Would more than one unit of Heavy Lancers overpowered for one stack?http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...earii_INFO.jpg
What about Ambakaros Eppones?http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...pones_INFO.jpg
And do you guys think its op to use mainly Lusotanni Mediums http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...avera_INFO.jpg as spearmen. I found them somehow more reliable than their Iberian counterpart http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...tarii_INFO.jpg
I cant use any light spearmen or light sword inf, the romans and averni would stomp them down with laughter.
Do you use any skirmishers? I use some Ambushers and sheperd slingers.
Thanks a lot!
Re: Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
Callaeci Medium Infantry aren't really that good. Good against AP guys with their high defense skill but other wise I'd shy away. Otherwise, I find all the other Iberian infantry units to be phenomonal. Dumnamica, Scortamareva and Iberian Heavy Infantry make great line infantry, obviously use the AP Iberian Heavies against Triarii, Solduros, etc. The Iberian Medium infantry and Scutarii are great as flankers. In fact Scutarii are from my experience, one of the best units in the game. Fast moving, great stamina, spear armed yet can stand against sword infantry with decent armor and defense skill. Really exploit the great infantry at your disposal but I too would limit Ambakaro to one unit. They are just too good. Beat Spartans in a 1v1 fight. Also, if you can get Asturian Axemen, use these against heavy infantry. They are a really, really nasty armored axe unit.
Another key component of your armies should be the skirmishers. Ambushers and their Celtiberian equivalents the Gaesamica should be present in your armies, or Iberian Velites if you need to reinforce quickly. All of these units can torture heavier infantry and tire them out until you can safely deal with them. Also, they do not fear cavalry with their spears and relatively high morale. I find them incredibly useful and often recruit skirmishers from Iberia in almost any western themed campaign. Use them to provoke charges and then swing around the flanks wider than your flanking infantry to stop cavalry charges and also chase off other skirmishers your enemy might have. Then bring them back as the final hammer. They all fight well in melee for light units.
Cavalry should be limited to 1 Ambakaro Epones and Iberian Heavy. First off, it would be hard to afford multiple, but secondly, use their lighter equivalents. Light Iberian cavalry can closely match Gallic equivalents in melee while also being great at skirmishing and the medium cav is a decent all around unit. If you have access, try to get Cantabrian cavalry. They carry a lot more javilins and are deadly with them.
Re: Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
thank you Robin I will write a song about your braveness!
what I foud most intriging about your post is, that you value the Scutarii and the axemen so much. The Scortamareva are stronger than the Iberian spearmen when it comes to javelins - statwise. And quite the same otherwise.
And I wonder if swordsmen arent overall better than the axemen. I had counted them already out because they seem weaker than ALL the AP swordguys. I'm not trying to argue with you, I am a Luso n00b, these are just my first impressions.
And money isnt that much of an issue, I play on VH, but with the entire peninsula under my rule (yeah I blitzed a bit, its ca. 215bc) and all mines built, I'm doing fine.
I will nevertheless limit my heavy/elite cav and recruit more cantabrians. how useful, you think, the iberian medium is?
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...risii_INFO.jpg
Edit: Yeah and I have to admit I am one of those nostalgic guys who enabled the Dosidataskeli, Dubosaverlacica and Ordmalice. But the "only one unit at all" - rule is obvious.
I completely forgot to ask about the milites llergetum.http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.ne...rgeta_INFO.jpg
Man... so many sword-guys.
Re: Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
Iberian mediums are average all around cavalry. They don't excel at any one role but they can both charge and fight in melee somewhat proficiently. Don't match them with heavy cavalry though and do not expect them to be miracle worker medium cavalry like prodromoi.
The axemen are useful because axe lethality is 0.165 which is > falcata lethality which is 0.11. I value them around the same as Iberian Heavies but they are a little cheaper though with more limited recruitment. As far as Scutarii go, they are inferior to Scortamareva in a stand up fight having less armor but I do not believe Scortas have AP solifera javelins like the Scutarii do, nor are they as fast or have as good as stamina. Scutarii have very good stamina, Scortas have just good. Morale and discipline are the same. Use Scortamareva more like hoplites and use Scutarii more like light/medium infantry.
Re: Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ziegenpeter
what I foud most intriging about your post is, that you value the Scutarii and the axemen so much. The Scortamareva are stronger than the Iberian spearmen when it comes to javelins - statwise. And quite the same otherwise.
And I wonder if swordsmen arent overall better than the axemen. I had counted them already out because they seem weaker than ALL the AP swordguys.
Axes have 50% higher lethality then the iberian falcata or the greek kopis. The asturian axemen are one of the strongest axe using units and are better then your lighter or medium iberian swordsmen when dealing with armored enemies.
It seems you aren't as experienced as many of the other forums users since when controlling all of iberia with the lusos no amored troops, not even the elite ones should be a problem. The iberian units are great, they use ap swords and often the ap full-metal-javelin solifera who can even do a lot of damage frontally against heavy infantry, you have a lot of money and some of the best cavalry units available.
Maybe you should read some of the tactic guides on the forums.
Scortamavera are actually heavy infantry armor-wise and are alongside the loricati scutarii perfect as line troops.
Scutarii are lighter then the luso mediums but faster and very hardy, probably one of the best units for flanking and that's the way you should use them. Run behind the enemy lines and let them charge, their solifera will do great damage and if the enemy doesn't flee they will beat him in melee. The loricati ceatratii should be used the same way. Spearmen are better against cavalry and light infantry while the swordsmen are better against medium and heavy (armored) infantry.
Actually all iberian units are great, the only I don't like are Dunaminaca and Calleaci mediums because shortwords are underpowered, though I rebalanced that on my install so they are now as good.
The Iberian Medium cavalry is great, they are very cost effective (like most medium cavalry). They are fast and very hardy, have a decent charge and medium armor. Perfect for running around the enemy lines and charge them in the backs but also to fight enemy cavalry. They are fast enough that you can hunt gallic light cavalry (or other skirmisher cavalry) with them, though that needs some skill because the gauls need to be tired or you need a second unit to block their escape route. With them you can also try to tire out the gallic heavy cavalry while they are trying to catch them and then lure them to your spearmen and finally charge the heavy's or just use two units of them to defeat the enemy cavalry.
Milites Ilergetum are a great unit of heavier longswordsmen. Good against light and medium units but probably to weak for celtic elites.
If a unit is fast moving and hardy or even very hardy you must use this. Either you tire out the enemy while he's chasing you or while he fights your hardy units and then charge in with fresh reserves. But even better is to use them as flankers. If they are fast and very hardy they can easily get behind the enemy lines while staying fresh or only become warmed up and then charge the enemy in the back with them. As long as your troops are not completely inferior to the enemy ones (like levies fighting heavy professionals or elites) charging in their backs and/or sorround them will beat anyone.
Fast infantry often can also cut down fleeing enemies when there's no enough cavalry for this job.
But if you're are bad at micromanaging or you don't want to use so many flanking tactics you should use the most cost effective line troops who often are relatively slow and have lower stamina (like loricati scutarii or scortamavera).
Re: Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
Thank you too, Rahl.
Does very hardy equal very good stamina?
Re: Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rahl
Actually all iberian units are great, the only I don't like are Dunaminaca and Calleaci mediums because shortwords are underpowered, though I rebalanced that on my install so they are now as good..
I find the Dunaminica one of the best line infantry in the game, a very powerful javelin combined with a decent sword attack and excellent morale (they will fight to the last if needed), they really hold their own.
Re: Which Swordsmen for Lusotanni?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ziegenpeter
Thank you too, Rahl.
Does very hardy equal very good stamina?
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bobbin
I find the Duniminica one of the best line infantry in the game, a very powerful javelin combined with a decent sword attack and excellent morale (they will fight to the last if needed), they really hold their own.
Agreed.
