DFW schools tries to ninja in mandatory Arab Language Requirements

What were they thinking? Sometimes I will actually stand up in defense of the DOE and their cronies, but this is absurd.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/02/07/m...-to-mansfield/

1. Foreign language requirements are fine, but to make a specific language mandatory? I could see Spanish in Dallas, but Arabic, really?

2. Arabic is not the language of the future, that is a farce. The language of the future is Mandarin Chinese.

3. They claimed they would not be teaching religion, only language, culture and history, like they do in Spanish. Taking Catholicism out of Spanish culture and history would be a walk in the park compared to taking Islam out of Arab history. Islam is deeply, deeply rooted into the Arab world and any culture where the majority follows it. But while I believe it can certainly be taken out after great effort, to make a class MANDATORY will mean that students and parents alike will be looking for the school to take one little misstep and then Bang! here come the lawsuits and all the costs and distractions thereof.

So all these things considered, why not just make the class an elective from the get-go? I may have taken it if Chinese were not offered, because I want to work outside the US in any country that is not Mexico. Hell, I may have taken both Chinese and Arabic, that would have been awesome.

What do the folks OCONUS think about this? Is there a certain foreign language you have to take?
Would that not tick you off?

:inquisitive:...Sure, why not, while we're at it lets also make it compulsory for american schools to teach russian.

This is a little confusing. Is arabic a frequently used language in mansfield? Are there arabian streetsigns?

stupid. its not even really an important language for the future as they seem to think. As you said Mandarin is more important or Indian. Hell in America spanish is more important especially in the southwest.

Maybe it was a secret plot bythe CIA and DOD to increase the pool of candidates for recruitment to work in Arabic countries, since right now, according to my calculations, the number of people in the US Army who speak Arabic is 3.

Kind of a slap in the face to all the Spanish speakers tbh

We have a mandatory foreign language. It's called English, and it is IIRC taught from 7th year in primary school onwards. During the first 2 (in VMBO) or 3 (elsewhere) years of secondary school French will be compulsory. The 2nd and if outside of VMBO 3rd year will add German to this list. Then you get to drop subjects you've grown to dislike so you could in theory ditch French and German, but outside of VMBO at least you will be then required to pick a secondary foreign language at a minimum which typically ends up being either of them due to lack of options.

Though from 2nd year onwards some VWO [pre university] level schools will offer additionally the option to study classical Latin, ancient Greek or both, these are allowed; and some schools offer courses in Spanish (relatively recent), or Russian (somewhat longer around due to the Cold War creating a niche for Russian). Anyway any of those will typically do for the second foreign language requirement but again, commonly not available to pick.

... This gets even more complex because there's such a thing as profiles, and here's the rub: there's a “culture/language” profile which includes either one of French and German in addition to a 3rd foreign language as a requirement...

... And then you go on to university where you are simply expected to read anything the professor damn well pleases to make you. This means you often get away with just English, but for instance history folks won't. (I've seen some of these texts, and from the opaque German used inside it I got the impression that was a deliberate gotcha since any competent author writing in English would use much more accessible prose by definition.)

Islamphilae, clear case.

If anything, it is a language of the past. When the hydrogen refueling network comes online in the West and Asia, there will be little reason for any advanced nation to have anything to do with that Godforsaken region or its people.

Seems like a nice waste of a grant. Like you guys have posted above, Chinese and or Spanish would make more sense. Heck, why not make both mandatory but Arabic seems to be a huge waste of resources.

Odd. Doesn't really make sense. While I don't disagree with the idea of learning about Arabic, it just doesn't make any sense to make it a mandatory language. However, what kind of schools are aligned with the DFW? Are all lessons mandatory there? If such, were the parents informed and aware of what kind of lessons are going on?

As for the fact that you can't or hardly seperate the Arabic language from Islam? Doesn't really make sense. Of course the words al-lah are found in many words, but it is comparable to the amount of times we use the word God as in, and I'm quoting:

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Godforsaken region or its people.

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Should we now say we can't or hardly seperate Christianity from the English language? You don't have to learn about Islam to learn Arabic.

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As you said Mandarin is more important or Indian.

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Nice, you managed to name the most important Chinese language, but then you suddenly say "Indian". Not Hindi, not Urdu, not Punjabi or Sindhi, no, Indian. Might be fun to know that most people in India do speak English, eh. Or at least, the people that (can) count.

None of that matters, the Arab world is insignificant, insignificant in arts, science, philosophy and literature. So why teach arab, it's got nothing to offer, :daisy:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

None of that matters, the Arab world is insignificant, insignificant in arts, science, philosophy and literature. So why teach arab, it's got nothing to offer, :daisy:.

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Literature and philosophy? I dunno there buddy, we have nobel laureates from the arab world. The amount of ignorance in this thread is pretty hilarious, but typical for people completely detached from reality.

Mind you, Russia Today and the Chinese CCTV did their first foreign language branch of their tv in Arabic. Al Jazeera is a channel watched by 60% of america now, Arabic influences many languages across two continents if not more as well.

and the article does not mention mandatory at all, but an "option", how insidious can this thread get?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ative_speakers

Hmmm makes you think..

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Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson

Al Jazeera is a channel watched by 60% of america now

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I find that hard to believe, as the channel is not available in the United States. I don't even think the Super Bowl drew 60% of the nation's eyes. That would mean roughly 186 million Americans regularly access the channel's website. Link, please.

Just out of curiosity, which Mansfield is this? There may be one in every state as far as I know...

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

I find that hard to believe, as the channel is not availible in the United States. I don't even think the Super Bowl drew 60% of the nation's eyes. That would mean roughly 186 million Americans regularly access the channel's website. Link, please.

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I might have been rather vague let me explain how that came to, during that altercation in egypt the only channel to pick up slack was Al Jazeera English, it reached a point that they reported 60% of american viewers were following the egyptian uprising through that channel, since apparently fox news were busy airing some celebrity tripping over constantly or something.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...041735816.html

60% of american traffic over the internet apparently woops. but there you go.

America needs more Arabic speakers. The language being so different from English, it really needs to be taught at a young age. So why not give a government grant to select schools to teach Arabic?

I don't really see the problem. Unless kids are left without a local choice for a school, or a school curriculum, without Arabic.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Alternatively, you could just teach your children meaningful cultured languages such as French, so you can instantly read the newspapers and television of half the Arabic world. The entire Tunesian Revolution - the one that started it all - was conducted in French.

Tunis protesters. Note the subtle cultural diffusion :beam: :

https://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2868/tunesie.jpg

Mad Arab:
The parents were not told of this until the last minute, at a parent-administrator meeting, where it was apparently added as an aside and some people were like "say what?" When parents raised questions, the board put a hold on the plans and are re-assessing. They will likely keep the classes, which is a good idea, but not make them mandatory. They may have been trying the mandatory approach in order to meet some kind of quota to make their program look better, I dunno.

I wasn't clear on my point: According to the article, they were planning on teaching Arabic Language, Culture and History in the class. Not just language. Had they kept it just at language, like they do in English and Spanish classes, then there is no problem. Casual uses of the word God or Allah is not what concerns me. History covers world and national history, not a specific religion. English covers literary and language uses, not religions. History and English courses may mention religions and gods, but they do not go into great detail about things like the crucifixion, repentance, creationism and the rapture, unless the students ask (and then the teacher is hesitant, and would be walking on glass, if not just tell the kid to stay after class rather than run the risk of offending someone haha). That stuff is not in standard textbooks, although many Christians want it there, it is not. I doubt that in France and Germany the English courses focus on the Christain aspect, maybe someone could answer that for me, because I know for a fact that US Spanish courses say near nil about Catholicism, Russian about Orthodox, or Japanese about Buhdda. These courses teach functional language, not history.

What concerns me is that much of Islam today is where Christianity was hundreds of years ago, being non-secular and widely reactionary. This could lead to two things: angry parents who do not want their children taught Islam, and angry muslims who think the religion is not being taught properly or given its due respects. For example, every time the mention of Mohammed is made, do the students or the teacher have to say Peace Be Upon Him? For Decades Public schools were notorious for whitewashing history, such as the Christian crusades, making them almost sound pleasant when in reality they were horrible. They may still do it. Will they do that with the history of Islam, and if they don't, will muslims get angry? Teaching Arabic language + culture + history but leaving out Islam will have everyone walking on glass, for the same reasons as mentioned above

The whole thing is a can of worms best left unopened. Make the classes electives, not mandatory. In the language class teach just the language, not the history, that can be a different class, also an elective, although more suited to a college setting than a high school one, lest it also be whitewashed.

I'm not trying to offend any muslims, but the whole point of the thread was that this whole affair was not thought out very well, and the manner in which they tried to implement it was rather dubious.

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Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson

Literature and philosophy? I dunno there buddy, we have nobel laureates from the arab world. The amount of ignorance in this thread is pretty hilarious, but typical for people completely detached from reality.

Mind you, Russia Today and the Chinese CCTV did their first foreign language branch of their tv in Arabic. Al Jazeera is a channel watched by 60% of america now, Arabic influences many languages across two continents if not more as well.

and the article does not mention mandatory at all, but an "option", how insidious can this thread get?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ative_speakers

Hmmm makes you think..

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There are excellent Arab writers, but more books are released her a year than in in a thousand years of the Arab world. And that's just the Netherlands. Makes you think, here at least. There is no reason to teach Arabian. What dialect of Arabian would it be anyway, there are many.

They edited the page and took out mandatory, it is still in the link name

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Mad Arab:
The parents were not told of this until the last minute, at a parent-administrator meeting, where it was apparently added as an aside and some people were like "say what?" When parents raised questions, the board put a hold on the plans and are re-assessing. They will likely keep the classes, which is a good idea, but not make them mandatory. They may have been trying the mandatory approach in order to meet some kind of quota to make their program look better, I dunno.

I wasn't clear on my point: According to the article, they were planning on teaching Arabic Language, Culture and History in the class. Not just language. Had they kept it just at language, like they do in English and Spanish classes, then there is no problem. Casual uses of the word God or Allah is not what concerns me. History covers world and national history, not a specific religion. English covers literary and language uses, not religions. History and English courses may mention religions and gods, but they do not go into great detail about things like the crucifixion, repentance, creationism and the rapture, unless the students ask (and then the teacher is hesitant, and would be walking on glass, if not just tell the kid to stay after class rather than run the risk of offending someone haha). That stuff is not in standard textbooks, although many Christians want it there, it is not. I doubt that in France and Germany the English courses focus on the Christain aspect, maybe someone could answer that for me, because I know for a fact that US Spanish courses say near nil about Catholicism, Russian about Orthodox, or Japanese about Buhdda. These courses teach functional language, not history.

What concerns me is that much of Islam today is where Christianity was hundreds of years ago, being non-secular and widely reactionary. This could lead to two things: angry parents who do not want their children taught Islam, and angry muslims who think the religion is not being taught properly or given its due respects. For example, every time the mention of Mohammed is made, do the students or the teacher have to say Peace Be Upon Him? For Decades Public schools were notorious for whitewashing history, such as the Christian crusades, making them almost sound pleasant when in reality they were horrible. They may still do it. Will they do that with the history of Islam, and if they don't, will muslims get angry? Teaching Arabic language + culture + history but leaving out Islam will have everyone walking on glass, for the same reasons as mentioned above

The whole thing is a can of worms best left unopened. Make the classes electives, not mandatory. In the language class teach just the language, not the history, that can be a different class, also an elective, although more suited to a college setting than a high school one, lest it also be whitewashed.

I'm not trying to offend any muslims, but the whole point of the thread was that this whole affair was not thought out very well, and the manner in which they tried to implement it was rather dubious.

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There is one problem about your posts, History and Culture of arabic isn't the history and culture of Islam, Arabic as a language predates islam, and the material that deals with arabic in the medieval age isn't really about Islam anyway, the part where Muhammed can be mentioned as a tiny foot note as such without offending anyone, "Advent of Islam, muhammed units the arab peninsula" the fact is, as the egyptian protests have shown, Muslims and their religious minorities get along fine, as you may have noticed if you ever watch al jazeera english, Slavoj Zizek, slovenian elvis of philosophy completely smacks out the ridiculous notion that a clash of culture exists, or wether muslims give an ounce what people say about their religion.

Note how a muslim just got away without saying the honorifc, you know cause its not relevant to the argument and as a rational human being, i understand what people are trying to say without getting offended, now its your turn to tell me why the media caters to a minority of loud mouths instead of covering the egyptian uprising, seeing banners with cross and crecents on them, and copts protecting muslims during their prayers?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

There are excellent Arab writers, but more books are released her a year than in in a thousand years of the Arab world. And that's just the Netherlands. Makes you think, here at least. There is no reason to teach Arabian. What dialect of Arabian would it be anyway, there are many.

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can you backup that claim? i know you live in the netherlands and all, but every year in the UAE we publish thousands of books in arabic too, which according to you means the dutch are in their intellectual backwater years since i certainly don't see a single book from the netherlands in my library. Oh and its not religious books.

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Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson

can you backup that claim? i know you live in the netherlands and all, but every year in the UAE we publish thousands of books in arabic too, which according to you means the dutch are in their intellectual backwater years since i certainly don't see a single book from the netherlands in my library. Oh and its not religious books.

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Read it somwhere. And the Emirates, what to say. These buildings are designed by the west and mostly build by guest-workers from the east. Who's really deluded, there is no future for the Arab world, oil will become absolete and than what

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Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson

There is one problem about your posts, History and Culture of arabic isn't the history and culture of Islam, Arabic as a language predates islam, and the material that deals with arabic in the medieval age isn't really about Islam anyway, the part where Muhammed can be mentioned as a tiny foot note as such without offending anyone, "Advent of Islam, muhammed units the arab peninsula" the fact is, as the egyptian protests have shown, Muslims and their religious minorities get along fine, as you may have noticed if you ever watch al jazeera english, Slavoj Zizek, slovenian elvis of philosophy completely smacks out the ridiculous notion that a clash of culture exists, or wether muslims give an ounce what people say about their religion.

Note how a muslim just got away without saying the honorifc, you know cause its not relevant to the argument and as a rational human being, i understand what people are trying to say without getting offended, now its your turn to tell me why the media caters to a minority of loud mouths instead of covering the egyptian uprising, seeing banners with cross and crecents on them, and copts protecting muslims during their prayers?

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It's funny you say that the uprising isn't covered here, as CNN and MSNBC prettymuch did 24 hour coverage for 6 days straight and sent their comedy show hosts on vacations. You are obviously referring to Fox News, which means you know as much about what is happening here as I know about Arab culture. Those networks still cover the uprising several times an hour, but in all honesty you can only show so many hours of people gathering and chanting and throwing molotovs that catch themselves on fire before people say "hey what happened in my country today."

I do not understand your link about the number of native speakers. Seems to show that Mandarin would still be the better mandatory choice than Arabic.

I am well aware that there are plenty of muslims who are not reactionary Aholes as I have had the pleasure of working with and fighting next to them. But I am also aware of the anti-relgious sentiment that exists in public schools, to the point that if a kid prays before a soccer game people sue the school district. That being said, introducing a class that will inevitably touch on Islam is going to anger people who think their religion is being marginalized while another is being given more attention. It is the nature of the beast, and if they were in fact secretly trying to make it mandatory then it proves my point

Since now they took mandatory out of the article, so either it was faulty reporting from the get go or they are covering for the district administrators.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Read it somwhere. And the Emirates, what to say. These buildings are designed by the west and mostly build by guest-workers from the east. Who's really deluded, there is no future for the Arab world, oil will become absolete and than what

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This is a really delicious red herring you have here mister! So from this single example the arabs are hopeless furthmore,

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Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson

This is a really delicious red herring you have here mister! So from this single example the arabs are hopeless furthmore,

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The Emirates are the crowm jewel, and it isn't going all that well. Where are things actually better than in the Emirates. Be a good boy and start wearing a tie

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Read it somwhere. And the Emirates, what to say. These buildings are designed by the west and mostly build by guest-workers from the east. Who's really deluded, there is no future for the Arab world, oil will become absolete and than what

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Tourism, expats, racing/sports events, banking. I think they're aware that the oil won't last forever and use the money to build up alternatives.

Ah yes, they also own shares in a lot of western companies.

One more reason to make our kids learn arabic, so they can talk to their future bosses.

While mandatory has been taken from the story it still exists in the link title. Some people have posted screenies of the original story.

On the mansfield web page, there are links to download the Power Point presentation and PDF that was presented to parents.
PDF:
http://www.mansfieldisd.org/curricul...StudiesFAQ.pdf

Note the following vague answer from the text:
Will every student be studying Arabic?
Every student will have the opportunity to participate in the program.

Interesting choice of words, very ambiguous.

Here is the link to the power point:
http://www.mansfieldisd.org/curricul...StudiesFAQ.pdf

The PP states that the curriculum starts in Kindergarten and is integrated into courses in small pieces, mostly 20 minute sessions. Since grade schoolers do not get electives and have a set study schedule, it appears that this will, in fact, be mandatory.

However, on this page http://www.mansfieldisd.org/departme...rabicgrant.htm they adress the mandatory issue.
Note they say "There are no “mandatory Arabic classes” as being falsely reported in the media.

Another interesting choice of words, since the Arabic taught in grade school is "integrated" in small increments, that would in fact mean that they were not classes, but rather, short modules included here and there.

It appears the actual full-term classes, which will be electives, start at the middle school level.

As I am interpeting this, the K-5 will get arabic included in their pre-determined curriculum, with electives available at a higher level. Still seems a little disingenuous to me to try something like this without going to the district parents first, and if my interpetation is correct, the K-5 teachings are still tantamount to mandatory arabic, just not arabic "classes," semantics or not. I could be wrong on this, please read and interpret for yourselves.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Islamphilae, clear case.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

None of that matters, the Arab world is insignificant, insignificant in arts, science, philosophy and literature. So why teach arab, it's got nothing to offer, don't need any language to herd goats, a stick and a dog will do fine.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Read it somwhere. And the Emirates, what to say. These buildings are designed by the west and mostly build by guest-workers from the east. Who's really deluded, there is no future for the Arab world, oil will become absolete and than what

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true... it is ridiculous, considering even in Indonesia, muslims are mostly unable to understood Arabs aside of the obvious Alhamdullilah, Masyaallah, and Asthafirullah...

what we need to learn is Martian languages, or some sort of Klingon

Does this happen to every thread that veers into Islam?

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Does this happen to every thread that veers into Islam?

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this isn't even about islam, apparently arabic culture is herding goats, and eating couscous.

I read that somewhere, its gotta be true!!