Research priorities

So in Shogun 2, what do you guys typically research first? What are the key arts?

Personally I find that I need Markets first, but then I try to rush for "Heaven and Earth" ASAP - +50% bow ammo and +5% replenishment to troops, and enables Encampments. Replenishment is such a key factor, it's vital to get it high early. And having lots of arrows is the most important factor in siege defense early on.

But then I go back to the Chi side for better roads, Sake dens, better farms, etc.

I almost never research much of the other Bushido arts, mainly because I can just capture buildings and use those instead. Researching the art and then spending a lot of money to build a building to get a single type of Samurai? No way, just give me more ashigaru every time.

What do you do?

I usually concentrate on the right side of the Chi tree, aside from going for calligraphy if I control many philosophical traditions. Also I research the 1st ninja part to improve sake dens and perhaps ninja clan buildings.
On the Bushido side I also always research heaven and earth early, otherwise I might research the 1st upgrade to all (spear, bow, sword) but then concentrate on 1 of them.
Of course with Takeda I concentrate on cavalry research, with Date/Shimazu swords etc...

I go for farm upgrades. Farms give (in fertile regions) the most amount of wealth. The Kii region with its rural ninja building and very fertile farmlands is the wealthiest in the game. Once I have enough base wealth and a nice food surplus, supporting lot of stacks is becoming lots easier.

Heaven and earth plus the farming techs. The early spear tech is also nice for buffing yari ashigaru a bit with some experience. I want the ashigaru to be as effective as I can get them while still investing in enough Chi for financial health.

I do want to get the navy techs one of these days so that I can apply the Nelson Touch! :grin:

Chi upgrades until i hit the farming techniques. I then switch to Bushido until i can master whatever arms my clan is famous for. Mostly until "way of the x", then i look at my strategic position and see what would benefit me more.

If clans are switching to Christianity i'll push down the Zen path for Monasteries and + to monk actions, otherwise I will stick to Bushido and try to get more of an advantage on the battlefield.

Apart from the stuff mentioned already, I find it's pretty helpful to get way of the bow (?) for fire arrows. Not overly important on land, but they can really turn the tide at sea (har har). Bow Kobayas are noticeably better with them that's for sure.

Generally, I go for arts that open access to something, be it buildings, abilities or recruitment options, rather than arts that provide small boni like experience for recruits.

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Originally Posted by Dead Guy

Apart from the stuff mentioned already, I find it's pretty helpful to get way of the bow (?) for fire arrows. Not overly important on land, but they can really turn the tide at sea (har har). Bow Kobayas are noticeably better with them that's for sure.

Generally, I go for arts that open access to something, be it buildings, abilities or recruitment options, rather than arts that provide small boni like experience for recruits.

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I tend to have the opposite reaction. I only open up what I really really need and aim to max out the usefulness of those troops.
For instance, if I play Uesugi, I don't care about the sword techs and buildings. I aim to max out my spears and monks XP, because it means that I get to have better units for the same upkeep price.

Of course, some clans might need to make use of more troop types. And some players prefer to have lots of different types of troops, when others might aim to use mostly ashis, naginata and bows for instance.

In my experience I went down the zen tree to markets then chi path until I reach my unit speciality. In the starting 20 or so turns I just don't have the cash to afford upgrades while the computer is coming down on me hard. I didn't see the point of researching farms if I don't have koku to afford them.

It's all about the rice, baby. Farms. And after that, weapons skills. Quality over quantity. Armies of vast hordes of ashigaru look menacing as stacks, but I have yet to meet an ashigaru who can stand up to a charge of katana or no dachi samurai. Match them up with enough missle troops and some naginata/yari samurai to steady the line, you should be able to humble the peasant armies.

I've recently started investing more towards warrior monks, especially naginata. Throw in a charge+war cry and all you see is routing ashigaru trampling over their fallen comrades...
I'm not very worried about warrior monks lacking armor, because most of the time they're clashing with enemy front lines so fast that half the arrows fired by the enemy are friendly fire. Though it's very lame/funny to hire warrior monks from a holy site province that gives +5 to morale...

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Originally Posted by Zarky

I've recently started investing more towards warrior monks, especially naginata. Throw in a charge+war cry and all you see is routing ashigaru trampling over their fallen comrades...
I'm not very worried about warrior monks lacking armor, because most of the time they're clashing with enemy front lines so fast that half the arrows fired by the enemy are friendly fire. Though it's very lame/funny to hire warrior monks from a holy site province that gives +5 to morale...

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You can get +4 to valor too, so why go for morale (or perhaps you meant valor).

I tried to research the diplomacy upgrades this time (H/H) and it seems to be a good idea. It also looks that I could keep the Date as my ally even after the realm divide since I can keep them up even if I get -200 from the divide event eventually. I perhaps have to give them some money, but my treasury can surely handle it.

For the arms race, I don't see much point in going for several types of units. I tend to go for the spears and the bows. Spears are great because they also help with the naginata, which is an ok replacement for swords when you can stack high XP and some attack bonus on them.

Prioritizing farms and roads seems like the obvious thing to do for me. Maximizing your income, replenishment rate, and campaign map speed are all really important. I also like the techs that decrease your cost of use for agents. On the Bushido side, I think it depends mostly on what your clan specializes in. All my games so far have been with the Chosokabe, so I'd focus on Bow and Naval technology.

I also think it's better to evenly divide your time between the peace and war branches, although given that there are three achievements that require you to research top-tier techs first I'll probably focus on getting those for my first few games.

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Originally Posted by Rothe

You can get +4 to valor too, so why go for morale (or perhaps you meant valor).

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What I sort of meant was that I usually make one holy site a pilgrim hostel, but I might as well make it a warrior monk recruiting center because of the +1 exp they get. The morale bonus is just redundant is what I meant.

Research priorities are interesting in this game because there are few "no brainers" and you can't get everything - there is a genuine choice.

This is the research order I am following in my first proper game:

(1) Get your free unit: From my limited experience, it seems like the first mission you get is to research a military tech relevant to your clain (way of sword for Shimazu, way of spear for Oda) so it probably makes sense to do that first.

(2) Heaven and earth: 50% more arrows IS a no-brainer.

(3) Farming: I then went down the farming improvements up to Chonindo for the faster economic growth from food surpluses.

(4) Naval: I started to get embroiled in various naval engagements and found the tendency of the AI to retreat far from battle frustrating. So I worked down the naval tech tree which is fairly self-contained. I am not sure it was necessary, but after I had the 20% more sea movement, things seemed a lot less frustrating. I should have gone for fire arrows before going down that path though.

(5) Agents: I started specialising provinces for better agents, so focussed on the left chi path. Ultimately picking up Ninjutsu mastery to get Japan's first Infamous Mizu Shobai District.

(6) Calligraphy: I belatedly got the Confucian Academy, benefiting from the combined +30 diplomacy and +30% trade tariffs from Calligraphy and Tea Ceremony.

(7) Master and Legendary dojos: I am now working on the bushido techs. Having one turn recruitment of samurai during realm divide sounds very attractive, as does being the first in Japan to build the legendary dojos (to get the bonuses for those feats).

Besides going for farms or specific military tech that you decide to prioritize, another criteria you can use for research is to focus on the areas that allow you to work building trees that promote research such as the philosophy and the temple angle.

on other total war game i used to go down the economic side first but in this game i seem to go down milatery i guess because it is a harder game

Pretty much the same as everyone else. Farming, then get to Heaven and Earth, then back to the right side. I'm really enjoying my ships so I'm glad I have some serious naval techs too (at 90+ turns I have a lot of good stuff!).

I'm not too sure about Heaven and Earth. Extra ammo is nice, but it seems that 90% of my battles end before archers can expend all their ammunition in the first place. Maybe I need to work commanding archers better.

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

I'm not too sure about Heaven and Earth. Extra ammo is nice, but it seems that 90% of my battles end before archers can expend all their ammunition in the first place. Maybe I need to work commanding archers better.

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For me arrows usually become a problem in late-game large castle siege defenses (which happen to me a lot after RD) where there is plenty to shoot and less need to back away from the walls. I research H&E for the replenishment bonus and encampment, if it was just the arrows I'd skip it until turn 80 or so.

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Originally Posted by Zarky

For me arrows usually become a problem in late-game large castle siege defenses (which happen to me a lot after RD) where there is plenty to shoot and less need to back away from the walls. I research H&E for the replenishment bonus and encampment, if it was just the arrows I'd skip it until turn 80 or so.

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Yes, that makes sense. I forgot the other bonuses they're quite useful in their own right.

I usually go for what the mission is, and then immediately get the one thats needed for upgraded farms.