Evangelical Christianity's Deadly Influence in Africa

I've recently become aware of this and I thought it was worth a post - mainly just to vent my frustration. I know it is another religion thread, and I am sorry. :shame:

Apparently, Evangelicals have been busy in Africa with far more than building churches and digging wells. They have also been using their significant pull ($$) to push the kinds of vile social engineering that, say, the Constitution in the United States or laïcité in France would not allow - and their efforts are bearing fruit.

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For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.

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Uganda is an exceptionally lush, mostly rural country where conservative Christian groups wield enormous influence. This is, after all, the land of proposed virginity scholarships, songs about Jesus playing in the airport, “Uganda is Blessed” bumper stickers on Parliament office doors and a suggestion by the president’s wife that a virginity census could be a way to fight AIDS.

Uganda has also become a magnet for American evangelical groups. Some of the best known Christian personalities have recently passed through here, often bringing with them anti-homosexuality messages, including the Rev. Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called “lies and errors and false reports” that he played a role in it.)

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And now, possibly first blood.

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On Wednesday afternoon, Mr. Kato was beaten to death with a hammer in his rough-and-tumble neighborhood. Police officials were quick to chalk up the motive to robbery, but members of the small and increasingly besieged gay community in Uganda suspect otherwise.

“David’s death is a result of the hatred planted in Uganda by U.S. evangelicals in 2009,” Val Kalende, the chairwoman of one of Uganda’s gay rights groups, said in a statement. “The Ugandan government and the so-called U.S. evangelicals must take responsibility for David’s blood.”

Ms. Kalende was referring to visits in March 2009 by a group of American evangelicals, who held rallies and workshops in Uganda discussing how to turn gay people straight, how gay men sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” intended to “defeat the marriage-based society.”

The Americans involved said they had no intention of stoking a violent reaction. But the antigay bill was drafted shortly thereafter. Some of the Ugandan politicians and preachers who wrote it had attended those sessions and said that they had discussed the legislation with the Americans.

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I'm not even going to comment on the Ugandans - they are obviously stupid and easily manipulated - but these Americans should know better. What part of being Christian involves traveling to other countries to stoke hatred and discrimination? Rick freaking Warren gave the invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration. :wall:

I used to stand up for these people - they seemed far more genuine in their faith than the Episcopalians I grew up around - but I've really become disillusioned with the movement. This is sinister, evil stuff. They are little more than an American Taliban, except that the Taliban at least has the balls say what they really believe. These Christians play warm and fuzzy for old women in America looking to send money to somebody on TV while they entertain Old Testament fantasies in small African countries - fantasies they would most surely like to see implemented in here as well.

Christianity seems to offer nothing but torment to gay people around the world, all based on a few passages from the bible. It seems so contrary to what I was taught about the teachings of Jesus.

Most religions do exactly the same thing. I can't think of one that is tolerant towards homosexuals. The other major religion in Africa - Islam - is equally keen on suppressing / killing homosexuals.

~:smoking:

There's a story about Uganda, HIV, Evangelicals and removal of proper sex ed. http://www.avert.org/aids-uganda.htm

While the 'Evangelicals' mentioned obviously spewed vile and disgusting speeches, I'm skeptical their words were the main force behind these bills.

This is Uganda, where a few people kill albinos for their body parts. There's a lot of people with backward beliefs there.

Though this doesn't completely excuse the Evangelicals.

CR

People are still burning witches in New Guinea, extreme discrimination against homosexuals in Africa doesn't really surprise me. The Evangelicals may have stoked the fire, but there was already the culture there to begin with.

it's the kind of thing religious extremism leads to.
the fact that we are particularity surprised just because in this case they are Christian is one of the real issues here.....like it was said above these people are no different and no less messed up than fanatics of any other religion.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

it's the kind of thing religious extremism leads to.
the fact that we are particularity surprised just because in this case they are Christian is one of the real issues here.....like it was said above these people are no different and no less messed up than fanatics of any other religion.

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This is not a religious issue, it's about sexual politics, and always has been. If this was a religious-theological issue it wouls not be common to all socieies at one time or another.

Did you hear? They found ancient texts in Jordan. These possibly describe that Jesus engaged in homosexual activity with his disciples.

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The most astounding finding from the newly discovered lead codices is that Jesus Christ was unambiguously and openly gay. He and his disciples formed a same-sex coterie, bound by feelings of love and mutual support. There are recorded instances of same-sex activity – the "beloved disciple" plays a significant role – and there is affirmation of the joys of friendship and of living and loving together.
Gays

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It's something that I've long assumed. Wasn't much of Jesus' journey simply that of a homosexual in a homophobic society? Then spread by the more openly homosexual Paul across gay subcultures throughout the Mediterranean. To this day, the city of Rome has got one of Europe's largest gay prostitute scenes. They know where their clients are.

Much of the history of Catholicism is simply that of an institute ran by gays in a homophobic world. Sometimes seeking refuge from their inner demons and fears, sometimes quite openly chosing to become a man of god to avoid marital duties. Abuse of a little boy, followed by an anti-homosexual tirade, this is what their inner psychological supression of their sexuality resuslts in.

Also, have a look at the interior decoration of a Baroque church - what, all that fabulous display was ordered and designed by heterosexual fashion and interior designers?

Well this is horrible, and stupid. Christianity should not influence civil laws. If these Evangelicals want to do so, then they should execute everyone because everyone has sinned and the wages of sin is death as the scripture says.

This is a case of missing the beam in one's own eye, I think.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

This is not a religious issue, it's about sexual politics, and always has been. If this was a religious-theological issue it wouls not be common to all socieies at one time or another.

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and as we all know religion has no impact on sexual politics...ohhh wait.
there are issues like this in all societies, overwhelmingly involving a religious bias....what happens is that they happen to different levels from one society to another.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Well this is horrible, and stupid. religion Christianity should not influence civil laws. If these Evangelicals want to do so, then they should execute everyone because everyone has sinned and the wages of sin is death as the scripture says.

This is a case of missing the beam in one's own eye, I think.

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there...fixed it for you.

As for Louis' findings about the stuff in Jordan, I don't see why it is such a big deal given there are countless examples of so called scriptures conflicting with the ones most Christians accept.

For a start, these new ones are inconsistent with pretty much all the rest. How can Jesus have been gay if he claimed to uphold the entire law, which condemns homosexuality? Likewise how can Paul be gay if he himself condemned homosexuality? In one of his epistles he clearly thinks a lot about his predicament in being single, which he probably couldn't help a lot due to being pretty badly physically deformed.

Oh, and as a side note, I like how Louis' Guardian article implies that Jesus recruited people to come and be gay with him. Does this mean it is a choice after all? Will gays really try to recruit our children?

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

How can Jesus have been gay if he claimed to uphold the entire law, which condemns homosexuality? Likewise how can Paul be gay if he himself condemned homosexuality?

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:laugh4:

I refer the honourable gentleman to practically every thread started by the Rt Hon Lemur*.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

* Sorry Lemur - most unfair of me. :embarassed:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

:laugh4:

I refer the honourable gentleman to practically every thread started by the Rt Hon Lemur*.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

* Sorry Lemur - most unfair of me. :embarassed:

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add to that the average political atitude of "do what I say not what I do".

For a moment there, I thought this thread was going to be about Cote d'Ivoire. The NYT has an op-ed piece this morning written by an Ivorian democracy campaigner wondering what went wrong with the former leader of the pro-democracy movement, Laurent Gbagbo. What caught my eye was a passing remark that the outgoing President had become an evangelical Christian and his pastors had allegedly persuaded him that only God, not a democratic election, could take away his power. They also supposedly painted the election winner (a Muslim) as the "devil".

On topic, PJ, it's not fair to describe the Ugandans as "stupid" (any more than others should describe Americans or whoever as such). Its just that many have the kind of traditional values that we saw in the West until fairly recently. Homosexuality was only legalised in the UK after I was born and attitudes towards it have changed massively during my adulthood (from derogatory to protective). It's particularly jarring as some Africans do share the same Western liberal values as we do (e.g. the African gay rights activists you quote). I remember reading an African newspaper editorial on some subject that was wonderfully wise and humane, while on another page, there was a report of a local police chief admonishing villagers not to beat their wives after dark - as it disturbs the neighbours' sleep.

It often surprises me how prominent evangelicals are on TV in Africa - there is often a grainy poorly produced government propoganda channel and little else, except some glossy evangelical TV channels. I guess they are seen as apolitical and unthreatening by the governments.

A people who were hunters/gatherers just a few generations ago meet up with a 2000 year old ethos - And I am supposed to be surprised that the outcome is less than civilized?

But they can total make all their friends jelly when they come back from the mission trip

LOL

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A people who were hunters/gatherers just a few generations ago meet up with a 2000 year old ethos

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Sounds like a bad comedy show. Anyone got FOX's number?

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Originally Posted by The Mad Arab

Sounds like a bad comedy show. Anyone got FOX's number?

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It does indeed sound like a bad comedy show. True none the less.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

:laugh4:

I refer the honourable gentleman to practically every thread started by the Rt Hon Lemur*.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

* Sorry Lemur - most unfair of me. :embarassed:

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Nice try, but it doesn't work. The claim is that Jesus and his crew were openly gay and apparently spread this message of gayness in this newly-discovered scripture.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Did you hear? They found ancient texts in Jordan. These possibly describe that Jesus engaged in homosexual activity with his disciples.

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Let no exaggeration go unspoken, then!

Seriously, the BBC article makes no mention I could find while skimming it. The guardian opinion piece seems to manufacture the evidence - or rather, doesn't include any evidence, just an assertion by the author.

:inquisitive:

CR

Some people say Jesus was black as well, them heretics make of Jesus what they want nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Let no exaggeration go unspoken, then!

Seriously, the BBC article makes no mention I could find while skimming it. The guardian opinion piece seems to manufacture the evidence - or rather, doesn't include any evidence, just an assertion by the author.

:inquisitive:

CR

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Inquisitive little wabbits must not click linkies, or no cawwots tonight. :no:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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After letting myself believe Jesus was gay, I emailed several scholars who are experts in ancient Christianity. I wanted real answers. I needed to know, what was really in those books. Margaret Barker wrote back earlier today. According to Dr. Barker, "Nobody has 'read' them though some people have found a few recognizable words. Some seem to be in code. Some are in the ancient Hebrew script, called palaeo-hebrew, a script that was in use before 500 BCE but was kept in use after that for formal and special writings well into the 2nd century CE."
"Some of the letters have unusual forms, so the meaning of words is not clear; the unusual letters could be one of several things and so change the meaning of the word," she explained.

I asked her how old she thought they were. She explained that preliminary tests indicate they could be 2000 years old, but she stressed additional testing needed to be complete before the books could be conclusively dated. "Some seem to be quite recent", she wrote.
According to Dr. Baker, there were lots of writers but it is not immediately clear who they were. Did they know Jesus personally or were they the first Christians? We just don't know.
I also asked her about the Guardian's story and whether the texts could provide evidence Jesus was gay. She wrote the Guardian could find gays anywhere, "They are obsessed with the issue."

Eager to read them myself, I asked her if they were available online, but they are not. It could take a long time. She wrote, "Nobody wants great delay, but on the other hand, it would be unwise to rush to judgement, like some newspapers and bloggers have done."
I couldn't agree more.

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http://www.bilerico.com/2011/04/the_...us_was_gay.php

Gah! Too eager. :embarassed:

Still, I shall continue my project of separation of church and prostate!

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Originally Posted by econ21

On topic, PJ, it's not fair to describe the Ugandans as "stupid"

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You're right. What is particularly galling about this story is that the Evangelicals actually made the situation worse! Certainly things in Uganda weren't great for gays, but the article suggest things were getting a little better. Then these guys hold a seminar about the evils of homosexuality attended by the nation's most prominent people, meet with politicians about a law after, and suddenly there is a new law that would condemn homosexuals to death and nationwide anti-gay paranoia.

It is unconscionable. These people presumably have more understanding of human rights and history than the average Ugandan, and should be held to a higher standard. These modern day Pharisees should be condemned for their tours of hate through Africa, not given the invocation at the President's inauguration. (And that's not a knock at O, Evangelicals were even more prominent in the Bush Administration. It just reflects the power they wield in this country as well.)

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Originally Posted by Ronin

and as we all know religion has no impact on sexual politics...ohhh wait.
there are issues like this in all societies, overwhelmingly involving a religious bias....what happens is that they happen to different levels from one society to another.

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Clearly you know very little about the persecution of homosexuals. Let me break it down for you..... in a highly patriarchal society a lot of men don't like the idea of a guy on the bottom, especially if it's another guy on top.

Nothing inherently to do with religion, Communisim was not over fond of homosexuality, nor was Aristotle, for that matter.

What has happened here is that the Evangelical hatemongering has tapped into a latent vien and borne ugly fruit - but it could just as easily have been a Darwinian telling them evolution demanded the exstinction of homosexuality.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Nothing inherently to do with religion, Communisim was not over fond of homosexuality

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You mean, Communism didn't invite Homosexuality over for the holidays or what? Grew up in a communist country, haven't heard anything about it. Barbarians who went to beat up gays during gay parade didn't mention communism but "church values"...

It has everything to do with religion which teaches them being homosexual is teh evil.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

You mean, Communism didn't invite Homosexuality over for the holidays or what? Grew up in a communist country, haven't heard anything about it. Barbarians who went to beat up gays during gay parade didn't mention communism but "church values"...

It has everything to do with religion which teaches them being homosexual is teh evil.

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But why do they say that?

That is the important question.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

But why do they say that?

That is the important question.

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Really not seeing where you are trying to go with this...

the obvious response is "Because the church/bible tells them so..."

however, you are obviously trying to imply that there is some other hidden reason. Enlighten us, praytell.

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Originally Posted by Jaguara

Really not seeing where you are trying to go with this...

the obvious response is "Because the church/bible tells them so..."

however, you are obviously trying to imply that there is some other hidden reason. Enlighten us, praytell.

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See post 25 please.

If Christians in Africa actually did things "because the Church says so" then there would be a lot less AIDs around, wouldn't there?

Please don't makes religion, of any kind, the excuse for human violence and bigotry.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

See post 25 please.

If Christians in Africa actually did things "because the Church says so" then there would be a lot less AIDs around, wouldn't there?

Please don't makes religion, of any kind, the excuse for human violence and bigotry.

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I had read post 25.

We do not make religion the excuse for those things, all too often religion does it on it's own.

We could point to the classic example of the crusades (violence at the very request of the church), or to anti-abortionists who feel justified in killing Doctors, or the family-values folks who use the scriptures to justify their persecution of homosexuals.

So, religions are very adept at preaching one thing while justifying another...so they will persecute homosexuals, but they will continue to have pre-marital sex. Or they will go to war and kill in the name of a pacifist God who preached that violence was never justified...

This does not mean that all Christians are "bad". You cannot blame all Christians for the extremists who will kill or persecute others in the name of God. Just like you should not treat all Muslims like terrorists because of the acts of a few. However, to deny that there is a segment of the Christian community that feels this way and promotes violence and bigotry is to bury your head in the sand.