War on Drugs has Failed... and in Other News the Sky is Blue

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/02/...html?hpt=hp_t2

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(CNN) -- The global war on drugs has failed, a high-level commission comprised of former presidents, public intellectuals and other leaders studying drug policies concluded in a report released Thursday.

International efforts to crack down on drug producers and consumers and to try to reduce demand have had "devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world," the report from the Global Commission on Drug Policy said.

The commission, which includes former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, Virgin Group founder Richard Branson and Nobel laureate Mario Vargas Llosa, challenges the conventional wisdom about drug markets and drug use.
Among the group's recommendations:

-- End of criminalization and stigmatization of people who use drugs but do not harm others

-- Encourage governments to experiment with drug legalization, especially marijuana

-- Offer more harm reduction measures, such as access to syringes

-- Ditch "just say no" and "zero tolerance" policies for youth in favor of other educational efforts.

The theory that increasing law enforcement action would lead to a shrinking drug market has not worked, the report says. To the contrary, illegal drug markets and the organized criminal organizations that traffic them have grown, the group found.

The report comes as countries such as Mexico suffer from widespread drug-related violence. More than 40,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the past four years as rival cartels battle each other over lucrative smuggling corridors and as the army fights the cartels.

The commission's findings add more high-profile voices to a growing movement calling for a radical approach to drugs. Other leaders, such as former Mexican President Vicente Fox, have called for drug legalization as part of a solution to his country's woes.

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Unfortunately (not in the article), the white house has already denounced the report ( burying your head in the sand is always fun), and asked for an increase in funds to fight these evil drugs!

Think there is no drug related crime here it's vicious, floating limbs and torso's are as Dutch as windmills. The old hippie who grows a few plants for personal use, well it doesn't go like that they are hardened criminals.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Think there is no drug related crime here it's vicious, floating limbs and torso's are as Dutch as windmills. The old hippie who grows a few plants for personal use, well it doesn't go like that they are hardened criminals.

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What? I didn't mention the Netherlands.

yep, I also support de-criminalizations of drugs, as long as the users didn't harm the others.

why a lot of countries doesn't learn from the utter failure of Prohibitionism? Making something Illegal only serve to drive them underground

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Originally Posted by Ice

What? I didn't mention the Netherlands.

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No, but here it's freely available and users aren't criminals to the law, it doesn't solve anything, just less people in jail. War on drugs is a war on people who you can't outbudget there is no solution, can gloat about how your (well your and Mexico's guv) efforts are a faillure but what would you suggest instead. Drugs isn't all that harmful why not count yourself lucky that it's pretty harmless as currency. Women, weapons and illegal immigrants are also lucrative, just less, best to keep it like that, a little bit of bad for the greater good. Take the draught, what changed when it was lifted, certainly not the maffia for the better

I don't know what the solution is, but it isn't what we have now. Coca grow faster than bullets. The weapons industry has made an absolute killing from both sides.

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Originally Posted by Samurai Waki

I don't know what the solution is, but it isn't what we have now. Coca grow faster than bullets. The weapons industry has made an absolute killing from both sides.

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Not changing anything remains the best idea, it's better when drugs are a hidden currency for a hidden market. You really don't want to devaluate it it will be a nightmare

See I'm not convinced of that. A heroine addict is always going to be a heroine addict, as long as they don't get treatment they are more likely to do desperate and stupid things for their fix.

Dealers should be prosecuted, and efforts should be made to strangle supply, that will drive up prices not just for users, but for dealers as well. The real problem though is that we can't easily attack the growers, so as prices rise on the street in the West so do their profits.

Still, these substances are life-destroying and legitimising and de-stigmatising them is not an answer.

We've been doing exactly that for 30 years, and the problem is worse now.

I don't think we should de-stigmatize drugs, nor should they be widely available... people are afraid of drugs, which inevitably intrigues some of them to use. A Healthy respect would be a better solution.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Still, these substances are life-destroying and legitimising and de-stigmatising them is not an answer.

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so are a lot of things that are perfectly legal do buy.

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Originally Posted by Samurai Waki

See I'm not convinced of that. A heroine addict is always going to be a heroine addict, as long as they don't get treatment they are more likely to do desperate and stupid things for their fix.

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User is just at the end of it, use it myself, use weed and sometimes cocaine in weekends. Not the point, you can't just kill the war on drugs it has a mind of it's own

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Originally Posted by Fragony

User is just at the end of it, use it myself, use weed and sometimes cocaine in weekends. Not the point, you can't just kill the war on drugs it has a mind of it's own

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Users are the end target, and the source for generating the wealth Drug Lords use to "fight" the War on Drugs. Just looking at the Mexican Cartels, they're arguably more powerful than Mexico's own military, and some, such as Los Zetas are trained on par with special forces. Taking away even just Marijuana from them would severely cripple their ability to generate the massive amounts of capitol they make.

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Originally Posted by Samurai Waki

Users are the end target, and the source for generating the wealth Drug Lords use to "fight" the War on Drugs. Just looking at the Mexican Cartels, they're arguably more powerful than Mexico's own military, and some, such as Los Zetas are trained on par with special forces. Taking away even just Marijuana from them would severely cripple their ability to generate the massive amounts of capitol they make.

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My point, things would get much worse. Never wake what's dorment, legalising drugs, just think of who you are messing with

There's a chance it could get ugly, but it hasn't been that good to begin with... Cuidad Juarez/Fort Bliss are already battlefields in all but name.

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Originally Posted by Samurai Waki

Taking away even just Marijuana from them would severely cripple their ability to generate the massive amounts of capitol they make.

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And how does one do that? I mean, it's grown in Mexico, right?

You know, the war on drugs was lost during the Papa Bush administration.

I am not sure it was ever a fight they wanted to win.

Most police agencies like it though because it gives them added powers, military gadgets, and federal money.

Ending it would be a boon to everyone but the drug lords who might have to lower their prices.

The money could be better spent elsewhere but some how government always manages to find bigger and better ways to waist money.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

You know, the war on drugs was lost during the Papa Bush administration.

I am not sure it was ever a fight they wanted to win.

Most police agencies like it though because it gives them added powers, military gadgets, and federal money.

Ending it would be a boon to everyone but the drug lords who might have to lower their prices.

The money could be better spent elsewhere but some how government always manages to find bigger and better ways to waist money.

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How? So easy we should just do that. But you can't it's not possible

Grow it in the USA? It grows exceptionally well here.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

How? So easy we should just do that. But you can't it's not possible

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Well, I wouldn’t worry much about it ending just yet.

Only god knows how much the US pays everyone to peruse this farce.

The whole issue is a comic tragedy of epic proportions.

It started with a scam and it is still going. The timber industry wanted to end competition with hemp farmers, just like prohibition was about ending alcohol competing with the oil industry.

It didn’t end society when it was legal.

I don’t favor drug use but I don’t like being sold a bill of goods either.

drugs should not be destigmatized. They are not good for you and should never be encouraged...... also not all drugs should be legalized. Do you really want legal meth and crack heads running around.

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Originally Posted by Samurai Waki

We've been doing exactly that for 30 years, and the problem is worse now.

I don't think we should de-stigmatize drugs, nor should they be widely available... people are afraid of drugs, which inevitably intrigues some of them to use. A Healthy respect would be a better solution.

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Are you sure it's worse, or rather worse than it would be with legal drugs?

As far as I can see the stigma has already gone, and that's why we see rising use - so the solution is to re-stigmatise it; as well as cutting the supply chain.

The problem is with the term "war", we have a constant "war" on murder and a "war" of burglery, I'm sure if you checked the stats you'd find more burgleries today as well, but I don't see anyone saying we should stop enforcing those laws. There is not, so far as I can see, a problem with the current situation except in the minds of the general public.

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

drugs should not be destigmatized. They are not good for you and should never be encouraged...... also not all drugs should be legalized. Do you really want legal meth and crack heads running around.

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Don’t worry. No one is going to legalize drugs.

If they were legal most wouldn’t be worth the money it costs to produce them. They would also lose a lot of their appeal.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Are you sure it's worse, or rather worse than it would be with legal drugs?

As far as I can see the stigma has already gone, and that's why we see rising use - so the solution is to re-stigmatise it; as well as cutting the supply chain.

The problem is with the term "war", we have a constant "war" on murder and a "war" of burglery, I'm sure if you checked the stats you'd find more burgleries today as well, but I don't see anyone saying we should stop enforcing those laws. There is not, so far as I can see, a problem with the current situation except in the minds of the general public.

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I don't think it's gone at all... instead of telling people drugs are bad like in the DARE program, they get to see the ugly truth. The Anti Meth Campaign in Montana was the most successful Anti Drug Program in History. Usage went down ten fold in three years, and Meth growers and Dealers were all but forced to abandon their operations, not because they were afraid of getting caught, nobody was buying.

So are you arguing that Alcohol should have stayed prohibited? There aren't many seniors around anymore to tell us what it was like during prohibition, but mafia movies are still popular.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Are you sure it's worse, or rather worse than it would be with legal drugs?

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Take it with a grain of salt, but the most liberal and accomodating regimes have so far paid off with the best figures in terms of the ill effects related to drugs (ab)use. That ranges from addiction, to health (of the addicts) to quality of the substance to crime figures in general (it helps there is less to catalog as crime and the addiction figures lend themselves to a reduction in crime automatically).

The main thing to consider is that we already have most of the frameworks and infrastructure in place to deal with the drugs issue on a much more constructive level, we've had a 150 years or so to sort out the alcohol issue and that was actually a much worse problem in every respect than what we have with drugs now. Crime directly related to alcohol (illegally brewing, smuggling and/or usual gang house keeping involved with all crime) is pretty much gone in the West by the simple fact that once it was all properly legalised dodgy drinks no longer paid off.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

No, but here it's freely available and users aren't criminals to the law, it doesn't solve anything, just less people in jail. War on drugs is a war on people who you can't outbudget there is no solution, can gloat about how your (well your and Mexico's guv) efforts are a faillure but what would you suggest instead. Drugs isn't all that harmful why not count yourself lucky that it's pretty harmless as currency. Women, weapons and illegal immigrants are also lucrative, just less, best to keep it like that, a little bit of bad for the greater good. Take the draught, what changed when it was lifted, certainly not the maffia for the better

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I'm amazed you would rather lock people in jail often ruining their lives and breaking up families rather than let them indulge in a habit that hurts no one besides themselves. Legalizing drugs would often have the added benefit of allowing the government easier access to tracking them and offering the treatment they need to get clean.

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Dealers should be prosecuted, and efforts should be made to strangle supply, that will drive up prices not just for users, but for dealers as well. The real problem though is that we can't easily attack the growers, so as prices rise on the street in the West so do their profits.

Still, these substances are life-destroying and legitimising and de-stigmatising them is not an answer.

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First, you are lumping all drugs together and categorizing them as "life destroying" this is 100% not true what so ever. The only reason they are life destroying is that the state destroys lives enforcing this stupid drug war. Second, for the ones like meth and heroin that actually can do a person great physical harm, I'd much rather have them de-stigmatize so, like a said before, these people would more inclined to seek help from the state.

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Not changing anything remains the best idea, it's better when drugs are a hidden currency for a hidden market. You really don't want to devaluate it it will be a nightmare

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You are being quite the hypocrite aren't you? You admit to using illegal drugs, but would rather keep them illegal because it really doesn't effect you. I have news for you, it is the war on drugs is already causing a nightmarish scenario.

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drugs should not be destigmatized. They are not good for you and should never be encouraged...... also not all drugs should be legalized. Do you really want legal meth and crack heads running around

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Once again, please for the love of god, stop lumping all drugs together. Drugs like cannabis, LSD, mushrooms, escstasy, khat, and other soft drugs have been shown to be relatively harmless in moderation and much less dangerous than alcohol.

And yes, I'd rather have legal crackheads and methheads running around than illegal ones. You seem to live in a fantasy world where obtaining these hard drugs is impossible simply because they are illegal; this is simply not true.

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Are you sure it's worse, or rather worse than it would be with legal drugs?

As far as I can see the stigma has already gone, and that's why we see rising use - so the solution is to re-stigmatise it; as well as cutting the supply chain.

The problem is with the term "war", we have a constant "war" on murder and a "war" of burglery, I'm sure if you checked the stats you'd find more burgleries today as well, but I don't see anyone saying we should stop enforcing those laws. There is not, so far as I can see, a problem with the current situation except in the minds of the general public.

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Yes I am sure. Portugual legalized small amount of heroin in 2001 and over a decade heroin use has dropped by half.

Please don't compare murder and burgerly to the war on drugs. The former is blatant violation on anther's natural rights while the latter is the individual's business. I don't think anyone is suggesting not punishing drug users if they commit crimes.

By the way, here's the actual report:

http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Report

If you are truly interested in what's best, I'd recommend you give it a read. It counters many of the arguments made in threads, provides years of research and statistics by many well-respected people, and debunks a lot of myths that are pure garbage.

Not being hypocritical. Legalisation is just not to be prefered it would be messing with the way of things it's best to uphold that price tag by fighting it only a little bit, it's basicly regulation. Stopping criminalising users is easy just do it, cops won't bother me over a bit of cocaine which is nice, but legalising it is like the world dropping the dollar, a very big mess, it's the currency of the shadow economy and it's in our interest to keep it lucrative so just look the other way here and there

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Originally Posted by Samurai Waki

Grow it in the USA? It grows exceptionally well here.

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Interestingly enough the Mexican cartels already grow marijuana in the US.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Not being hypocritical. Legalisation is just not to be prefered it would be messing with the way of things it's best to uphold that price tag by fighting it only a little bit, it's basicly regulation. Stopping criminalising users is easy just do it, cops won't bother me over a bit of cocaine which is nice, but legalising it is like the world dropping the dollar, a very big mess, it's the currency of the shadow economy and it's in our interest to keep it lucrative so just look the other way here and there

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What are you describing is legalization of small amounts of drugs for personal use; this is a good first step. However, the purity of certain street drugs, which in many cases lead to the unforunate overdose of many individuals as they are cut with dangerous substances, and the massive profits flowing to organized crime still worry me. I'd rather people know what they are using and the money go to the state to fund drug treatment programs.