EB Online EDU v2.1 - RELEASE!

THE EB ONLINE EDU - VERSION 2.1

by gamegeek2

This EDU follows in the footsteps of the last in that it aims to create a more historically accurate and enjoyable experience by incorporating suggestions from the community and my own ideas into a new set of statistics for the most crucial file to EB Online - the export_descr_unit file.

Important Changes from Version 2.0

1. Resizing of Persian Archers and Archer Spearmen. These units now have a base unit size of 50, making them the largest archer units in the game. The Persians were known for mass levies of archers, and such troops would be the main local levy raised by the Seleucids, Baktrians, and Parthians (along with units such as the pantodapoi, but nobody uses those :yes: )

Gameplay Tips: Don't count on these guys to win archery duels (except against other low quality archers). However they are excellent at shooting into melee blobs, or murdering units from the rear. They will also chew up slingers very quickly, and are highly effective against poorly armoured enemies (like all archers).

2. Cavalry Swords, Axes, Maces, and Overhand Spears get +3 attack. The original EB stat system had these weapons all -1 attack compared with their infantry counterparts (except the overhand spears, which had their own independent stats). Now they are +2 attack compared with their infantry counterparts. I feel this is fair given the slower animations which cavalry use, and considering the advantage a horseman has against infantry. Also, underhand spears and lances were significantly better than all other cavalry weapons in almost every case; this is no longer true.

Gameplay Tips: For cavalry armed with lances and swords, it is highly recommended that you use Alt + attack (right-click on the enemy) to switch to and use the unit's secondary weapon, the sword, once in melee. Exception: against units with heavy armor, cavalry with non-ap longswords should probably continue to use the lance in melee.

3. Most Elite Infantry now have 80 men. I incorporated the same formula for all other infantry units and applied it to elite infantry. I also removed the stat pumps I gave to many elite units, and I lowered some attack stats as well, mainly for elite units that fight in tight formations. There are seven exceptions: Gaesatae, Tindanotae, Dosidataskeli, Dubosaverlacica, the Koinon Hellenon Bodyguard, the Saba Bodyguard, and the Suebic Bodyguard. Their stat changes are explained in the documentation, albeit in note form.

Result: Elite Infantry are generally cheaper and far more effective now. They are extremely effective and will regularly rack up twice their numbers in kills if used properly.

4. Infantry and Cavalry Skirmishers given +1 attack. Not actually that big, but for such a large category of units, I feel I should post that these units have been given a slight edge.

Result: This should increase the killing power of skirmishers' javelins by approximately 12%.

5. Phalanxes Now Have 0.3 Pike Lethality. This is to make it easy for phalanxes to steamroll through non-phalanxes, and to represent the extremely powerful "push of pike."

Result: Phalanx battles will now resolve very quickly. It should also be harder for you to just hold a phalanx with a single spear unit, or whatever you prefer.

vartan has kindly posted a video showing the new battle system.

NOTE: Do not expect any response from me until August 1st. I will have very sparse internet access throughout July.

--- DOWNLOAD LINKS (UPDATED 7/1/01 AT 1:57 EASTERN TIME) ---

Mediafire: http://www.mediafire.com/?6cr84vrnm7c86nb
Megaupload: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J3DGA93D

Thank you very much again for your time and effort in this matter gamegeek2. Your work is always invaluable to EB Online. I'd like to wish you a fun and safe trip for this July. That being said, I will now embed the video you mentioned here in this second post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOjmV4q0RIU

A few fixes were needed. The link in the OP has been updated.

... You're not allowed to reenable pikes after you take them out of phalanx...

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

... You're not allowed to reenable pikes after you take them out of phalanx...

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But that's only after fight contact, isn't it? It is allowed to take phalanx out before you got to a fight and reenable it before fight contact?

Yes it is.

Why is the galatian heavy cavalry so expensive in comparison to other heavy cavalry? They don't have better stats as far as I see.

Pictone Neitos are counted as factional for Casse but are not on their roster. It's a shame because they would probably prove more useful to Casse than either of the Gallic factions due to the former's lack of access to the Gaesatae.

But why should they be factional for casse? They are mainland celts...

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Originally Posted by Kival

But why should they be factional for casse? They are mainland celts...

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Remember, the basis for our factional lists were many pages such as the following: https://europabarbarorum.com/factions_casse_units.html

As such, there may be remnants of 'mistakes'. Nevertheless, that particular unit may indeed be factional in the game, and I assume it is since it is on the EB site under factional units for Casse. Now, perhaps it was never fielded by the Casse, I don't know. If they're really not on the roster, then either they must be removed from the factional list, or added to the roster.

*Roster changes are EDU changes and so will not be in effect until at least the next month.

I think we should consider experimenting with tweaks to assault infantry/hoplite density and mass, the amount of 'push' a unit has on the initial engage is due to mass and the difference between guard/non guard unit spacing. You can tweak. I think one of the major changes would be to potentially to tweak with forward/back spacing to give units more forward pushing power.

We may be able to make it so that certain units can break guard mode units.

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Originally Posted by Kival

But why should they be factional for casse? They are mainland celts...

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I know, yet as Vartan says, if they are to be considered factional, as is currently the case, they should be there. It's no weirder than having Noricenes as factionals for the Gauls (or the Boiis as you have suggested yourself), and from reading the unit description they do seem to have more in common with the Casse than with Arverni/Aedui. As being consistent with how we determine factionals could in this case give use to a unit that currently sees none, I think it's fair to give it to them.

Attachment 1438

Then you totally have avoided my suggestion :inquisitive:
Anyway, I've already tried this new vers. and I've found a too overpowered cavalry in melee, especially the kopis ones.
Also I still dislike those ridiculous overpowered two-handed guys: 2 indian longbowmen units kill quite quickly a cohors (or a thorakitai units).

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Originally Posted by Aulus Caecina Severus

Anyway, I've already tried this new vers. and I've found a too overpowered cavalry in melee, especially the kopis ones. Also I still dislike those ridiculous overpowered two-handed guys: 2 indian longbowmen units kill quite quickly a cohors (or a thorakitai units).

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That was the whole idea. More fully, the job we wanted them to do is now being done, more satisfactorily.

That's true because those indian boys have AP swords...

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Originally Posted by lmt96

That's true because those indian boys have AP swords...

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But are quite allergic to arrows and not very cost effective as archers. There are downsides to them, trust me.

I think Indian units have both discipline and morale issues so they tend to mass mass mass chain rout.

They are also some of the worse archers in the game, without their melee ability, or other archer support, would be quite useless.

The fun army is the mass Lancer/Cata army with 10 indians.

I suppose steppe rules DO allow for that...

Yes, Asya Badarai, Saka Body guards, Roxo Lancers, Roxo Nobles ...Fun

I know it is based on the website but I've found some inconsistensies for the romans...

The Samnitici Milites (Samnite Heavy Infantry) are supposed to be factional for Camillians but are not part of the roster.

The polybian factional list ist stripped from any samnite units which does not make sense as far as I know. It's correct that in the polybian era after (!) the incident with Hannibal the romans no longer trusted their italian allies but then bruttians etc. should be stripped too from the factional list (and one would need to add some gallic and hispanic allies).

Is their any way to repair the galatian heavy spearmen? Can they be changed to use spears as primary and swords as secondary weapons?

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Originally Posted by Kival

Is their any way to repair the galatian heavy spearmen? Can they be changed to use spears as primary and swords as secondary weapons?

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There are a myriad of units that have this 'problem'. I'm no modder but I recall reading something about having to modify models, that simply 'switching' primary and secondary proves to be problematic for whatever reason.

By the way there were a couple of units in this EDU that gamegeek2 told me to tell y'all not to use. I can't find my note paper on that but I do remember for sure that one of the units was a 'Lugii Swordsman'. I can't find that unit but that's what gamegeek2 said.

ad 1) Ah i feared something like that :/

ad 2) Essentially nobody should use the sweboz as far as I remember his saying(s?). The Lugii were not supposed to have ap (by gamegeek) weapons. At the moment they have higher lethality AND AP which makes them OP.

We might be able to have a quick fix for you guys for the Lugii and other problem(s) I can't recall as a patch to 2.1 for August, albeit with a delay of a few days (as gg2 return to us on the first of August).

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Originally Posted by Kival

I know it is based on the website but I've found some inconsistensies for the romans...

The Samnitici Milites (Samnite Heavy Infantry) are supposed to be factional for Camillians but are not part of the roster.

The polybian factional list ist stripped from any samnite units which does not make sense as far as I know. It's correct that in the polybian era after (!) the incident with Hannibal the romans no longer trusted their italian allies but then bruttians etc. should be stripped too from the factional list (and one would need to add some gallic and hispanic allies).

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I think that the game would explode if you had pedites and milites because they share the same model. I think Camillian Triari have the exact same model and pedites already use the merc trick... I think.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I think that the game would explode if you had pedites and milites because they share the same model. I think Camillian Triari have the exact same model and pedites already use the merc trick... I think.

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But in SP rome can use milites? I'm no modder but Camillian Triari are a hoplite unit how could they use the same model? In the EDU under soldier they do not have the same modelnames... if i understand correctly.

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Originally Posted by Kival

But in SP rome can use milites? I'm no modder but Camillian Triari are a hoplite unit how could they use the same model? In the EDU under soldier they do not have the same modelnames... if i understand correctly.

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You are correct. Samnites are classified as the merc unit. It's easy to tell when you look at the unit rosters of every faction in multiplayer custom battles as the units which use mercenary models are listed towards to bottom. Hence Polybian Principes being near the bottom for the Romans as they share a model with the Hastati.

Should be a 1 line fix.