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You reap what you sow.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/05/news...=BN1&hpt=hp_t1
Remember when Obama offered 4.5 trillion in reduction and Bohener said no?
http://www.standardandpoors.com/serv...ervalue3=UTF-8
Quote:
The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see asAmerica's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective,and less predictable than what we previously believed.
No, I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Congratulations everyone! One more step towards global parity. Painful, but necessary.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_919867.html
No, you reap what you sow. Because the blame is bi-partisan in nature at best.Quote:
The move came after Congress haggled over budget cuts and the nation's borrowing limit – and failed to cut enough government spending to satisfy S&P.
From the same article you posted,
Whose babies are those?Quote:
However, one of S&P's explicit criticisms of the compromise was that it didn't address the biggest drivers of the nation's debt -- Social Security and Medicare
double.
Obama's proposal gave about $680 billion in cuts for those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
Guys it's the bickering more then anything that is dropping the credit rating. Team USA has been playing as a group of star players not a star team, as such Team USA has had it's rating dropped to AA+ and with a negative outlook.
There are a lot of bitter pills to swallow and they have to work as a team or its just going to get worse.
But they didn't happen. We can all say what was given and what was offered, but they are still right where they were before. We don't know the the true machinations of politics. I was open to "revenue boosters" from tax reform, so were most registered republicans. Even those congressmen who signed the tax pledge eased off with a similar easing from norquist.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gutmensch
We don't deserve the credit. Retraction is more likely than growth and our debt is out of control. We should have had a downgrade years ago, but were able to keep it out of political pressuresQuote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Which is why Strike is lamenting how Boehner walked out...I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
Well from what happened it looked like the Republican leadership wasn't open to those. Don't misinterpret me, I am not going to blame Republicans for all of our economic woes, but they were the wrench in the gears this time around and now our plan has been deemed inadequate.Quote:
We can all say what was given and what was offered, but they are still right where they were before. We don't know the the true machinations of politics. I was open to "revenue boosters" from tax reform, so were most registered republicans. Even those congressmen who signed the tax pledge eased off with a similar easing from norquist.
This actually makes me very, very happy.
Exactly, there is justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
The methods by which Congress spends our money is appalling. They are as bad, if not worse, than any welfare class we have in this country. They try to make it sound like Earmarking is the only way to get things done, when in fact, things were done just fine without earmarking up until the 1980s.
Americans have become complacent because they are spoiled rotten. The ruling class understands that by feeding the hole, they shut people up. By dumbing down the populace, they shut people up.
The free pass that public that chronic welfare recipients get in regards to their personal lifestyle is appalling. They should be treated just like children who cannot manage their allowance and get their homework done.
The free pass that corporate welfare recipients get in regards to mismanagement of income is appalling. Let them fail. The market will adjust, just like it did up until the 1980s when bailouts became the new fad.
Social Security was actually somewhat solvent until it became the PayDay Loan Advance for Congress.
The net worth of Congress has gone up hundreds of percent during this recession.
This is the second best thing that could happen, the first being a meteor hitting Washington while in sessions.
DBL POST
Raising taxes - the only answer to all of this.
Funnily, it's also the only answer noone will ever contemplate. Enjoy.
I am weary of the benefits that a bad economy will bring. It usually during the bleakest of times (relatively for the population) that sociopaths and radicals get their opportunity to really throw the baby out with the bath water and muck up the good things that we had.
Right. Unless america can keep spending like a lunatic the Nazis will come to town.Major Robert dump, will you marry me? I have a hard time listening to americans complain about anything. The people we should be worried about live abroad and the best way to help them is by making investment in their economies look better and better, while keeping the pressure on their corrupt governments. Nothing does than like a downgrade. Their credit ratings go up in relation.This message was sent from my early 90s track phoneQuote:
Originally Posted by The Gutmensch
If you raise taxes without also creating reform, no lessons are learned and this will happen again in 30 years. People need to suffer. You don't give a diabetic more sugar.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Not to provoke all the anti-tax people here but Standard and Poor's wishes for the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 to be eliminated for the highest earners so that the US debt growth will be easier kept in check.
"Under our revised base case fiscal scenario--which we consider to be consistent with a 'AA+' long-term rating and a negative outlook--we now project that net general government debt would rise from an estimated 74% of GDP by the end of 2011 to 79% in 2015 and 85% by 2021.
[...]
Our revised upside scenario--which, other things being equal, we view as consistent with the outlook on the 'AA+' long-term rating being revised to stable--retains these same macroeconomic assumptions. In addition, it incorporates $950 billion of new revenues on the assumption that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating. In this scenario, we project that the net general government debt would rise from an estimated 74% of GDP by the end of 2011 to 77% in 2015 and to 78% by 2021.
[...]
As our downside alternate fiscal scenario illustrates, a higher public debt trajectory than we currently assume could lead us to lower the long-term rating again. On the other hand, as our upside scenario highlights, if the recommendations of the Congressional Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction--independently or coupled with other initiatives, such as the lapsing of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners--lead to fiscal consolidation measures beyond the minimum mandated, and we believe they are likely to slow the deterioration of the government's debt dynamics, the long-term rating could stabilize at 'AA+'."
Not saying the nazi's will come to town. Don't strawman me. I am saying that the far right and left will gain more support in making large shifts in american society. There is a possibility that the extreme right will gain more followers in dismantling all the "nanny state" measures, including a complete removal of social security, medicare and welfare entirely. As Bachman said during the Republican debate, "conservatives need their own great society bill that removes just as much or more than what the liberals created". Or something to that effect. Now I know there are strong problems with social security and medicare, but those are problems that should be tackled with reform not removal and doing so will be a big shock to a major section of the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
I don't know that I agree with you.
I would like to think that even the most infantile Americans would be able to see that is is the fringe left and fringe right that are highly responsible for this, as their agendas help mask the corruption in Washington...give the kids something to occupy themselves, so mom and dad can sneak out to the El Camino and do some meth.
Idk, how is Bachmann doing in the polls/preliminary primary votes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
Polls mean ****.
The credit downgrade just happened after being told for weeks on end that it would not and that there will be no double dip. Ask me that again in 4 weeks.
There are banks in this country who are charging people to save money at their institution. The behavior of the wealthy in these circumstances is disproving the old adage that the wealthy will invest with lower taxes, because right now they are piling so much into liquid savings accounts that the banks are having to come up with alternatives to make money because no one is investing and they cannot afford to pay out interest on piles of liquid cash.
Everything we know, the entire status quo, revolves around careless deficit spending, AAA credit and the world currency being the dollar.
Good night Irene, the dollar is next. I can't wait.
I am pretty sure Moody's and S&P has been saying they will downgrade the US for over a week now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
It would happen anyway. 30 years is a generational shift and the children loves to do the same mistakes as their parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
Lowest taxes for a very long time doesn't help either. Now that situation reminds a bit of California though.
I am pretty sure Moody's at least publicly announced that they would not be downgrading US credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gutmensch
I'm pretty this is not a good thing, ye will learn absolutely nothing, being realistic yer just gonna blame each other like right now in this thread.
This is the fall of Singapore moment for America the day the weakness of the Empire was exposed.
They've been saying it longer than that, to which the Obama administration has consistently responded 'Nuh uh!' until very recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gutmensch
This is bad news. The US has definitely lost its mojo. I'm not sure why people are celebrating. Nations rarely recover from the terminal rise in interest rates once debt fears kick in. S&P demonstrates that themselves in their press release on this.Quote:
Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said Tuesday there is "no risk" the U.S. will lose its top credit rating amid a new analysis that revised its outlook on American debt to "negative."
Geithner took to the airwaves of financial news networks to push back against a report Monday by Standard & Poor's that lowered its outlook on U.S. debt to "negative," reflecting political uncertainty over whether lawmakers will reach an agreement to address long-term debt.
There is no chance that the U.S. will lose its top credit rating, Geithner said, forcefully disputing the notion that S&P or other ratings services might downgrade U.S. bonds from their current AAA rating.
"No risk of that, no risk," Geithner said on the Fox Business Network.
Then again, the direct effect this will have on interest rates is not certain, especially considering Moody's and Fitch's reaffirmation of America's triple A status. I hate to admit it, but I sort of agree with Barney Frank on this one - that the analysts at S&P are throwing their weight around after taking a lot of heat for completely missing the looming financial crisis (not that Frank should be lecturing people on that subject). The US has $58 trillion in household net worth and $14 trillion in debt. The downgrade seems more like political commentary than sound financial analysis.Quote:
The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the
long-term rating to 'AA' within the next two years if we see that less
reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new
fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government
debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case.
In any event, the idea that people need to suffer in order to elect more competent politicians is a bit too masochistic for my tastes and doesn't really add up. As ACIN points out, economic instability rarely causes people to make better decisions at the ballot box. IMO, this will make the situation harder to fix as both side's extremes will be able to exert even more pressure on the moderates leading to even more entrenchment.
The were giving warnings, and Washington was denying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gutmensch
pssssssst China. And they aren't very pleased atmQuote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump