China Launches it's first Aircraft Carrier for a test run

http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-first-a...000047792.html

Interesting to say the least.

Meh there is a much larger aircraft carrier permantly moored off the coast of China about 120km to the east which cannot be easily sunk. China see's it as such a threat they have well over 1,100 missiles aimed at it.

But Chinese people can't swim!

it's one thing to have the top-end toys, quite another to know to use them as a war-winning capability.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

it's one thing to have the top-end toys, quite another to know to use them as a war-winning capability.

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Well they could ask the US how to use toys successfully... just look at how well Iraq and Afghanistan have gone. :2thumbsup:

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More seriously... I wonder when remote controlled aircraft carriers are going to be deployed...

But they don't use carriers in either one of those conflicts.......

No special forces teams launched from carriers?

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Serious side... I'd say the value for money has been shown in both the low tech feet on the ground and the high end drones.

By the time China gets their head around carriers there will be next generation predator drones and missiles capable of Mach 20 that will deal with fleets too effectively to make them a great option against another symetrical force.

Interesting decision by China. I'm firmly of the belief that, much like the battleship, the days of the super carrier are numbered. We are right on the verge of completely removing pilots from our combat air operations and probably most of the support roles as well, which will allow for far smaller, less expensive, and less vulnerable carriers. I would have thought China would wait until UAV technology went mainstream before jumping into the carrier race, but I guess they already had the Russian one bought and when you're that flush with money, there's no reason to wait. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Interesting decision by China. I'm firmly of the belief that, much like the battleship, the days of the super carrier are numbered. We are right on the verge of completely removing pilots from our combat air operations and probably most of the support roles as well, which will allow for far smaller, less expensive, and less vulnerable carriers. I would have thought China would wait until UAV technology went mainstream before jumping into the carrier race, but I guess they already had the Russian one bought and when you're that flush with money, there's no reason to wait. :shrug:

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When men want to look like a superpower, they deploy an enormous weapon.

Doesn't matter whether it's of any use, as long as it's big.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

When men want to look like a superpower, they deploy an enormous weapon.

Doesn't matter whether it's of any use, as long as it's big.

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Is this what a saturday night in Banqoustan looks like? ~;)

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Interesting decision by China. I'm firmly of the belief that, much like the battleship, the days of the super carrier are numbered. We are right on the verge of completely removing pilots from our combat air operations and probably most of the support roles as well, which will allow for far smaller, less expensive, and less vulnerable carriers. I would have thought China would wait until UAV technology went mainstream before jumping into the carrier race, but I guess they already had the Russian one bought and when you're that flush with money, there's no reason to wait. :shrug:

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the rise of the UAV is not incompatible with the aircraft carrier, quite the opposite in fact.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

the rise of the UAV is not incompatible with the aircraft carrier, quite the opposite in fact.

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UAV is cheaper than an aircraft carrier with enough of them you could sink an entire fleet, they could be like a swarm of bees the carrier might run out of weapons systems to defend itself.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

UAV is cheaper than an aircraft carrier with enough of them you could sink an entire fleet, they could be like a swarm of bees the carrier might run out of weapons systems to defend itself.

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a uav is a plane without a pilot.

it is still considered useful to fly planes with pilots off aircraft carriers today, just as it will remain useful to fly planes without pilots off carriers tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

a uav is a plane without a pilot.

it is still considered useful to fly planes with pilots off aircraft carriers today, just as it will remain useful to fly planes without pilots off carriers tomorrow.

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This changes and sometimes quicker than we like.

An aircraft carrier could potentially run out of UAV's whereas the ground based would be capable of more longterm fighting.

Also people are trying to develop things like underwater UAVs and other cool stuff, I agree with PJ the carrier is likely to head the way of the battleship and sooner than we think.

Everyone was stilll obsessed with battleships in WW2 and they had been already outclassed and no one noticed till it was too late, the same will happen with carriers.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

An aircraft carrier could potentially run out of UAV's whereas the ground based would be capable of more longterm fighting.

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UAV's are not magic. You could use precisely same argument for ordinary planes yet carriers are still here.

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Everyone was stilll obsessed with battleships in WW2 and they had been already outclassed and no one noticed till it was too late, the same will happen with carriers

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Perhaps. But so far that awesome new weapon to outclass the carrier is not here.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

When men want to look like a superpower, they deploy an enormous weapon.

Doesn't matter whether it's of any use, as long as it's big.

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It isn't just big, it projects power onto shores wherever it goes. I guess that is what the Chinese are after. The want control of the South China Sea and a carrier is just the weapon they need in that theatre.

AII

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Originally Posted by CBR

UAV's are not magic. You could use precisely same argument for ordinary planes yet carriers are still here.

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but they are CHEAP unlike the carrier, jets are the not same in reality they cost millions to run and train the pilots etc, UAV's could be ran autonomously with no need for anything but one fella and a flat field.

I bet China has built it for making itself available for international conflict management. If someone thinks that Chinese are dumb enough to start an arms race with US and spending their wealth by that. I think they are dead wrong. It is far more profitable to keep buying US debt and complain about US defence spending.
The fact is that China does not need a super powerful army to become a superpower and Chinese know that also.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Everyone was stilll obsessed with battleships in WW2 and they had been already outclassed and no one noticed till it was too late, the same will happen with carriers.

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And until there is a shooting war that proves that beyond any doubt they will continue to be built. Which you yourself noted.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

but they are CHEAP unlike the carrier, jets are the not same in reality they cost millions to run and train the pilots etc, UAV's could be ran autonomously with no need for anything but one fella and a flat field.

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a) What makes you think they are cheap. If you look at current costs I doubt many would call them cheap but yeah sure they cost less than F22 and whatnot.

b) UAV's need maintenance like any other craft unless you want them to be used as single shot munitions. And if that is the thing then carriers would also need less crew and could have supply ships deliver more UAV's like they already are getting fuel and ammo.

c) The cheapness and low maintenance of your UAV's is another way of saying that airpower just got even better then before. Carriers now becomes even more important for global power projection.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

but they are CHEAP unlike the carrier, jets are the not same in reality they cost millions to run and train the pilots etc, UAV's could be ran autonomously with no need for anything but one fella and a flat field.

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carrier UAV's will be just as cheap, give or take.

but then just as carriers are expensive so are air-bases, particularly when host-nation-access and host-nation-support comes with a political pricetag attached such as NATO's use of the sicily airbase; oh look, all of a sudden we are willing to take another look at the principle of immigrants always being returned to the first eu nation that gave them access.

carriers may well be superceded, but it hasn't happened yet and it won't be because of UAV's.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Is this what a saturday night in Banqoustan looks like? ~;)

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In this damp corner of the world, we have very small weapons and absolutely no desire to use them.

carriers are going to be necessary weapons of war for a long time to come.

and uavs will never replace the piloted aircraft.

I'd be interested to hear of any significant conflicts within the last 40 years (possibly even since WW2) involving states with operational aircraft carriers where said carriers have not been used? The only one I can think of is Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008 but then Russia had a land border so there was no problem in terms of basing and overflight with using land based aircraft. The fact is an aircraft carrier does still have significant practical use in a range of environments and there is nothing to suggest this will change for the time being.

Having said that, however, the launch of this Chinese carrier doesn't really represent any significant change in the situation in the Far East. It should be viewed as a training ship rather than an operational warship and just marks another step in the long chain of events that will eventually lead to China having an operational aircraft carrier.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

In this damp corner of the world, we have very small weapons and absolutely no desire to use them.

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Now I'm confused.

Are we still speaking metaphorically about penises? If so, I do applaud your honesty!!



Though I do feel a little sorry for Ms. Banqou....

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

...and uavs will never replace the piloted aircraft.

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I think you will be surprised...

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Originally Posted by CBR

I think you will be surprised...

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No I don't think I will...... I live on the base that holds some of the work for the Predator drone (most of it is out in Nevada), the military testing center for the Global Hawk system, the program for the P-7 and F-35. Those are the programs I at least know about. My father is a contractor and troubleshooter for the Navy for their aircraft. Drone work and technology is nowhere near the necessary level required to replace a human pilot. And before you say, now it isn't. I mean it won't be for hundreds of year if ever.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Now I'm confused.

Are we still speaking metaphorically about penises? If so, I do applaud your honesty!!

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Just as in international relations, a great deal can be achieved with innovative methods that do not rely on penetrative weapons. Only a fool thinks effectiveness is about size. :wink:

That's the 2nd sexual pun I've seen from you today

Let the record show

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Just as in international relations, a great deal can be achieved with innovative methods that do not rely on penetrative weapons. Only a fool thinks effectiveness is about size. :wink:

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:laugh4: