https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXHxbCgg3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...ud3fVGZU#t=31s
WE ARE PEOPLE! WE ARE PEOPLE! THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXHxbCgg3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...ud3fVGZU#t=31s
WE ARE PEOPLE! WE ARE PEOPLE! THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE!
Looks a bit like the London riots where a bunch of, shall we say, less than bright people get caught on camera doing stuff they shouldn't.
More like, "This is what a pack of drunken college students with misplaced loyalties looks like". :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
You don't see pro-pedophile rallies very often, so bonus points for sheer novelty.
In all fairness, it's a pro pedophile-enabler rally. I doubt they are rioting for Sandusky's sake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Talk about screwed up priorities. What a waste of education.
[rant]I really cannot understand the ridiculously outsized role sports play in our society and especially the mindset of 'the fan'.
I get the appeal of playing sports, but there is nothing more insufferable in my opinion than sitting around watching other people play sports. And yet so many people are so completely wrapped up in 'their' team that it becomes their lifestyle, their defining identity. So much time, energy, and money is wasted in the hope of winning transient championships that have no effect on anyone's lives except those directly involved with the team. I mean why does it really matter who wins x,y, or z championship? I hate coming into work and hearing the 'fans' talk about how 'we' did, as if they had anything at all to do with the outcome of the latest meaningless game. IMO, sports are a great distraction for boring people living boring lives who can only live vicariously through the achievements of others.
And its gotten so crazy that universities are spending very limited funds to build new facilities and stadiums and hire more staff for the team while raising tuition and letting classrooms deteriorate. My university just spent millions to build a specialized tailgating parking lot so the idiots can sit around for hours before the game in anticipation of sitting around for hours at the game. Violence over team rivalries is now common. And corruption in getting the best players is just as common. And now we are all hearing about the absolute insanity that went on at the highest levels of Penn State to save the reputation of the football program. These were grown men who decided that a game was more important than stopping a pedophile. The rioting is just the icing on the cake - the ultimate expression of a society with its priorities completely off kilter.[/rant]
The crowds love their bread and circuses right?Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
If Paterno had done anything wrong, these riots would not have happened. He was a convenient scapgoat for the Board of Trustees to demonstrate that they were taking action. There were repeated failures on numerous occassions within and outside the university over a number of years and Paterno was the one who paid the price. Curley, the athletic director, is up on charges and he wasn't fired. McQueary, who was the actual witness, was not fired, though today he was put on "administrative leave".
What many fail to understand is that this is not about football. Sure, part of it is, but legacy of Joe Paterno goes beyond football. He is the face and the spirit of intergrity at Penn State. For 46 years as head coach he was the university's biggest cheerleader in sports and academics. He taught his players discipline and integrity. When asked which of his teams was the best, his criteria for judgement is based on what they did/will do with their lives off the football field. He expected his players to attend their classes. We as students, alumni and fans took pride in that integrity and what Paterno stands for. He made us proud of who WE ARE. He pushed his players to be better people and it rubbed off on the rest of us. Paterno built a career and a lifetime to better people and better the university.
A lifetime's exemplary work and reputation was trashed in the matter of a few days because it was convenient for the Board. That is why the students were rioting. If Paterno did orchestrate a coverup, the students wouldn't be rioting in support of him. They (we all) would be devastated and then probably angry at him - feeling crushed and betrayed. But at the present, with what we know, the Board fired the spirit of the university and the one person who did what he was supposed to do. In hindsight, with knowledge of a very graphic grand jury report of multiple offenses, we (and Paterno) know he did not do the best thing (calling the police himself), but he did do the right thing.
This has been a horrible week. I've been walking around with a pit in my stomach most of the time. Sandusky had a squeaky clean public reputation - an excellent coach and a great person. That he was capable of doing such horrid acts was stunning and sickening. That McQueary, Shultz and to a lesser extent Curley and in the earlier cases the janitor and others of the university police let this happen is incomprehendable. Where was our integrity? We are supposed to do the right thing and stop this, not look the other way. Paterno's failure? Trusting that others would do their job and do the right thing.
It is a good thing I'll be working during the football game tomorrow, because I don't know how I will react if they win or lose.
Anyway, sorry babbling. I've been wrestling not only with horrible crimes and my school's role in them, but also listening to lots of nasty (and some very stupid) things being said by the media and on the internet about a group of people of which I'm a part and I've been keeping my thoughts bottled up all week. I know we here at the Org all frown upon judging people by the group so I know I won't see any of that here. ~;)
hmm I watch football every Sunday but I agree. Many people use it to fill a gap in their lives, rather than just being entertained for a few hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
Don't you think he had the responsibility to make sure the right thing got done? You can't just pass the buck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi
I wish I had more information to form an opinion. However, Greg’s post is probably the most relevant ultimately.
You’re a person playing historical-themed PC games with eight thousand posts on a gaming forum. Don’t tell me you don’t understand escapism or that you have not witnessed far too many times vicarious debates unfolding through “Us” against “Them” paradigm.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ
As an observation, the most erudite historians are among the human beings most prone to escapism. It's pathetic but you have to allow it to them, their dedication stems in large part from this.
Nowadays sports fans are the successors of generations who did not have today’s means to live mental vacations at their disposal and adult-organized outdoor games were a perfect outlet, especially by allowing them to express their suppressed feelings of aggression.
It won’t last that much longer, in fifty years this type of past-time will be obsolete. Would be outdated even faster if not for the powerful attachment created during early childhood and adolescence by sharing such moments with (male) relatives and friends. This generational heritage will be phased out slowly.
I also enjoy playing sports. What do all three activities have in common that sitting around watching other people do them do not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowake
Also, I just want to throw in there that for many (not all) universities, football or basketball programs generate a net profit that helps the university including the academics. So talking about how terrible the priorities are is misguided if you don't know what the situation really is.
Why do we have this level of sports involved at all though? You can still talk about priorities.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I think it's weird the amount of stuff that's packaged into "the college experience". It should mostly be academics.
I have to say, I agree. Once people use sport as a way of filling a hole in their life and as a way of living vicariously through the 'team' they clearly have their priorities well out of order. When these people get in power or those in power pander to this audience (who, more often than not, react well to this pandering due to the narrow focus of their lives), the social priorities are simultaneously thrown askew.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
Penn State should forfeit the rest of their games this season. Any Board Trustee that was present during the time frame of this crime should step down/ be fired. They allowed an accused sexual predator of children to continue his abuse for years. There's been a cover-up and the people in charge of Penn State and their football program put the millions of $$$ that it generates for the college ahead of those abused boys. The governing body for college football should suspend Penn State's program till the full truth be known. Future civil lawsuits, and the loss of doners will cost the college dearly. There won't be any joy in Happy Valley till those responsible are held accountable. I feel badly for those like Greg that feel let down by this failure of integrity. Demand it be made right.
Well sport has had good effects tooQuote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
After the civl war in Ireland it was the GAA that helped to channel the energy of the people away from killing each other and into sports.
IT is the right of these people to riot over these bad firings. I mean, in a way those boys deserved what they got for dressing in little league outfits and they would have never been in those situations had they not done things like go to school. Everyone is blaming that old man, and I don't think he's guilty, he's not even Catholic.
What the hell is a Penn State anyway???
A university, I expect. Penn being short for Pennsylvania.
Bingo. Sport serves one of the most basic psychological needs for many people: that of identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
It also gives a convenient means to settle tensions in a somewhat civilised manner, as opposed to petty war. You could, in theory, have the entire Afghanistan war settle through a regular football cup, the psychological ingredients for it to happen are there.
It is your 19th century English toff heritage: the scholar athlete, mensa sana in corpore sano, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
the sports team is the tribe...Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
Hmm, there's some old English book about being a soccer fan and the sense of community that I can't recall the title of right now.
Anyways, a thoughtful article on the whole affair from Paterno's biographer;
These college kids, in a tense atmosphere, sure seem a heck of a lot better at communicating ideas than the occupy folks;Quote:
1. Joe Paterno is responsible for what happens on his watch. Period.
2. People are making assumptions about what Joe did or didn’t know, what Joe did or didn’t do, and I can’t tell you that those assumptions are wrong. But I can tell you that they are assumptions based on one side of the story.
3. We are in a top-you world where everyone is not only trying to report something faster but is also trying to report something ANGRIER. One guy wants Joe Paterno to resign, the next wants him to be fired, the next wants him to be fired this minute, the next wants him to be fired and arrested, the next wants him to be fired, arrested and jailed, on and on, until we’ve lost sight of who actually committed the crimes here.
4. I think the University could not possibly have handled this worse. It was disgusting and disgraceful, the method in which they fired Joe Paterno after 60 years of service, and yes, I do think Paterno was a scapegoat. Of course he was. I’ve already said that he had to be let go. But to let him dangle out there, take up all the headlines, face the bulk of the media pressure, absolutely, that’s the very definition of scapegoat. Three people were indicted and arrested. A fourth, I hear, will be indicted soon. Joe Paterno is not one of the four.
5. It is still unclear what Paterno did in this case. It will remain unclear for a while. You might be one of the hundreds and hundreds of people I’ve heard from who know EXACTLY what Paterno did. He HAD to know this. He DEFINITELY knew that. He COULD have done something. I respect that. Joe Paterno’s a public figure. You have every right to believe what you want to believe and be absolutely certain about it. But since we have not heard from Joe, not heard from former athletic director Tim Curley, not heard from GA/assistant coach Mike McQueary, not heard from anyone who was in the room, I’ll repeat: It’s unclear. A determined grand jury did not charge Joe Paterno with any crime. A motivated reporting barrage, so far, anyway, has not uncovered a single thing that can tell us definitively what Joe Paterno knew.
You can say that he knew enough to stop this, and I’d say you were right. I have tried so hard to make it clear that I am not defending Joe Paterno’s actions or inactions, but I know that won’t be enough. You may be writing an email right now telling me how terrible child molestation is, how awful a person Joe Paterno is, how awful a person I am for wanting to wait and see. I understand. This case hits emotions that are unstoppable.
But I will say this: Paterno has paid a price here. His job is gone. His life’s work has been soiled. His reputation is in tatters. Maybe that should be the price. Maybe there should be more of a price. You don’t have to type: “Well, his price is nothing like the price of those victims…” I already know that.
But I think the way Joe Paterno has lived his life has earned him something more than instant fury, more than immediate assumptions of the worst, more than the happy cheers of critics who have always believed that there was something phony about the man and his ideals. He deserves what I would hope we all deserve — for the truth to come out, or, anyway, the closest thing to truth we can find.
I don’t think Joe Paterno has gotten that. And I think that’s sad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35NZfcts4tA&feature=player_embedded
CR
I bet that they have a much higher literacy than the OWS folks, too. I bet all sorts of social stats would put them ahead of the OWS folks, for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Really, what did you expect? :shrug:
We have this level of sports because it is human nature to identify yourself as part of a group and then demonize those that are not part of your group. In college when most people start learning about themselves, it is easy to just latch onto their uni's sports teams for identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Seriously, the amount of elitism in here is just embarrassing. Why do the commoners waste their time, investing so much of themselves into something they have nothing to do with? It's like they are being human? Rabble, rabble rabble, why can't people be as enlightened as me and transcend sports?
If the sports program is a major money grabber for the uni, the uni should place it first, because if it doesn't then everyone is for the worse.
You guys are all talking as if sports haven't been causing riots in LA, or fights between New Yorkers and Bostonians for 100+ years.
Hmm no, I already said I watch football every sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
The issue is that too many people view college as a certain kind of experience that has little to do with anything intellectual and that universities market themselves in that way. Why shouldn't they just have intramural sports?
Fever pitch?Quote:
Originally Posted by CR
That part wasn't directed towards you. I recall you posting in the NFL threads in the frontroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
I just explained this. College is when most people actually start thinking about what kind of person they will be, not about what they want to know about. So they treat college as an orgy of experiences and "life learning" instead of a place to learn about the world around them. Uni's market themselves in whatever way will get them more money. It just so happens that marketing themselves as a place to learn about yourself and obtain experiences gets them a lot more money then as a place of liberal education.Quote:
The issue is that too many people view college as a certain kind of experience that has little to do with anything intellectual and that universities market themselves in that way. Why shouldn't they just have intramural sports?
As a side note, I am waiting for the flood of hate coming my way on facebook since I just made a comment about how Paterno should have been fired and that the only thing that went wrong was Penn State not coming down harder on the rest involved as well.
Also, isn't fellow orgah Icefrom Penn State? I am interested to hear his thoughts on the manner since if I remember correctly, he just graduated from there.
Actually, this Penn State kid pretty much says exactly what I am thinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXCZKUp45o0
Notice how the kid giving the "rebuttle" pretty much fails at saying anything meaningful at all besides, "Joe Paterno has done so much for this university". Which basically much just means, Paterno has been a good coach and a good role model....up until now.
EDIT: My god, how long was Penn State covering this kind of stuff up?
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf
And now, this is coming to a boil?
Yes, so there should be some interlude between high school and college where people first move out and live on their own. Don't know how that would work out specifically though. Maybe everyone who had howard zinn inflicted on them in high school can be forced to take remedial American history.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name