I'm calling it. The Oda are the easiest clan

Besides isolated ones like the Chosokabe of course,which can turtle for half the game and not be disturbed.

I use Darthmod, so it may have something to do with it, but the Oda seem to me to be far easier than the other clans, for one main reason:

Cheap Ashigaru. You can spam the hell out of these guys, for like half price and upkeep. even though 1v1 they can't take on Samurai, you can have so many men that you can easily flank and just swarm the enemy with sheer numbers. Plus you can recruit 6 Ashigaru units in just 1 turn, per castle. That gives a potential full stack every 4 turns of cheap, yet very reliable and plentiful yari and bow ashigaru. With Generals using morale-boosters, they will rarely rout, and since the A.I. likes to send its own general crashing into your archers, smacking them across the face with a yari charge is a sure-fire way to take out the enemy general and crush enemy morale.

Plus the matchlock ashigaru's are still very cheap, and extremely useful as morale breakers and samurai killers. When deployed on the flanks while the enemy samurai is tied down with your yari ashigaru, the matchlocks tear apart their armor and send them running in maybe 3 volleys, 5 max. They can be spammed, as can bow ashigaru which results in a tactic of holding the enemy with the main, cheap yari line and whittling them down with arrows and guns. If you got ahold of cavalry and the money to support it, the Oda are unstoppable.

Enemy Cavalry (Takeda) is cannon fodder to an Oda player. yari's just chew em up in seconds.

The only problem I could see someone having would be maybe financial situation and surviving the first few years. However even this situation can be a positive.

Using the bridges to the north and west as the only ways into your home province, a nice bottle-neck is created, at which an entire army can be held down by 2 yari ashigaru, a general, and a few bow units. The Tokugawa in the south can attack you directly, but there are enough woods around that you can easily set up an ambush that they have no choice but to run into, and afterwards their capital will be vulnerable to a blitz.


I don't know about you guys, but I love the Oda. cheap, mass-produced, large, yet reliable spear, bow, and gun units make me very happy.

I like Oda as well, cheap ash are always nice.

But if I was to suggest to a brand new player what clan to start with, I would still go with Shimazu or Date (and while I realize some also reco Chosokabe, I don't because I think new players will struggle with getting off the island in a timely fashion, too prone to turtling for too long, and they'll no doubt accidentally play short since it's the default and run out of time).

Shimazu for trade nodes, money solves all problems.

Date for a one front war making it easy to manage for someone new to the game.

Prussian, have you got the first DLC installed? I also found Oda straightforward (after a tough opening few turns) but Tincow said that with the Ikko-Iko DLC mod installed, things become a lot more hairy.

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Originally Posted by econ21

Prussian, have you got the first DLC installed? I also found Oda straightforward (after a tough opening few turns) but Tincow said that with the Ikko-Iko DLC mod installed, things become a lot more hairy.

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I can't say that I do. The only thing I have besides vanilla is Darthmod; no DLC whatsoever. Did he explain why the Ikko-Iki mod would change it? I don't know what that DLC really does to be honest

I can see how relying solely on Ashigarus can be annoying on harder difficulties later on but for the most part, they tend to do fairly well. It is kinda funny how the AI Oda churns out stacks of upgraded Samurai later on instead of 3x as many stacks of upgraded Ashigarus.

To be honest, I find the Takeda the easiest. I currently hold 27 provinces, and my Realm Divide is getting worse and worse. But my relations with the Date and the Hojo, are incredibly strong. I made Kyoto my vassal, and they were very happy. Also, at one point (before taking Kyoto), I was making 10000 per turn, and had 200000 in my treasury. I was literally throwing my money away. Giving gifts like Santa on LSD. My food surplus was at 11. The Date are my main allies, our relation with them was +300. Now it's around +175. But they're joining me in my race to the finish, by conquering the small clans.

When I was Shimazu (my first camapign), I just kept on conquering. I had practically no diplomatic relations with anyone except my allies, the Shoni. A couple of turns after taking Kyoto, I was back-stabbed. Everyone turned against me. Including the Shoni. That was the worst.

But the Oda, now they are quite a good clan. I don't use Ashigaru when I've established myself, except as sacrifices for my Katana Samurai and my Warrior Monks. In my typical army, the ratio between Ashigaru and everyone else is 1:1. So I do use the Ashigaru alot. In fact, I might use the Oda again, after I finish my Takeda campaign.

Cavalary is good for anything?

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Originally Posted by Sp4

Cavalary is good for anything?

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Hell yeah. The light cavalry is really good at killing archers and routing enemies. But you never leave them in combat. You use the Charge Bonus to your advantage, and just keep on charging them. Charge, slaughter, retreat, repeat. The Katana cavalry... I don't use that much. Mainly light cavalry. And Yari cavalry.

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Originally Posted by Prussian to the Iron

I can't say that I do. The only thing I have besides vanilla is Darthmod; no DLC whatsoever. Did he explain why the Ikko-Iki mod would change it? I don't know what that DLC really does to be honest

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He discussed it here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053329291

I don't have the DLC either, but I gather the Ikko-Iko become something of a "viral" faction, spreading their religion and causing unrest, as well as becoming militarily aggressive (in AI hands; they also become playable). Oda are one of the nearest to them and so suffer the most - TinCow said he lost the game as a result.

I have to disagree for two main reasons.

The first would be the game-changing Ikko-Ikki inclusion already mentioned. The extent to which they change the struggle for dominance in central Japan is incredible, especially when you're playing a faction that isn't them. I've seen grand Ikko empires that have captured Kyoto, and I've seen desperate coalitions formed to take them down when they were getting powerful. Coalitions that later went on to pose serious threats to my rise to power. (a recent Hattori/Chokosabe alliance was particularly deadly. Ever seen the Chokosabe drop two full stacks on your southern flank in a naval invasion? Its a rude awakening.)

The second being the Shimazu simply have a stupidly easy position from which to start. Once you win the war for Kyushu you can essentially turtle for the entire game - all you have to do is get yourself a decent navy and control the trade routes and your home island is impregnable. Three tough navies: one off the coast of Southern Kyushu, one watching the land bridge near where Honshu meets Kyushu, and one idling between Shinkoku and Kyushu and you've got yourself a wall. :yes:

However I see what you're saying and its a good point, the main problem is surviving the insane first few years. I have literally lost campaigns in a single turn as the Oda. It's a knife-edge. For the long term I think Uesugi are much more difficult.

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Originally Posted by Prussian to the Iron

Cheap Ashigaru. You can spam the hell out of these guys, for like half price and upkeep. even though 1v1 they can't take on Samurai, you can have so many men that you can easily flank and just swarm the enemy with sheer numbers.

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Against the random samurai the ashigaru have a chance in 1v1. Without mods they may reach 12 attack, 5 def, 4 armor without the boni from the exp.

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Originally Posted by Prussian to the Iron

The only problem I could see someone having would be maybe financial situation and surviving the first few years. However even this situation can be a positive.

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I played them some times and never had problems in the first few years. after about 5 years
the problems began and till the next 5 years they were solved. (or everyone hated me)

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Originally Posted by Monk

Ever seen the Chokosabe drop two full stacks on your southern flank in a naval invasion? Its a rude awakening.)

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Once i had 3 naval invasions in 3 turns. All of them were unlucky, because my daymo with experinced ashigaru was near.

I just started a Darth mod campaign as the Takeda and just met the Oda clan after giving them a stinging defeat. I never really played them or fought them in Vanilla, so I wasn't expecting much trouble from them. It turns out that Darth Mod makes the Ashigaru 2x more reliable and combine that with the upkeep and morale bonus from the Oda clan...they are absolutely beastly.

With Darthmod on they are one of the most easiest clans, just due to how fast and cheaply they can whip up those Ashigaru stacks. The Ikko-Ikki never seem to keep the Oda in check but then I have not seen them survive for even that long.*Wonders if he is the only person who beelines researching Essence of Spirit first*

I need to play the Oda clan sometime...

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

I just started a Darth mod campaign as the Takeda and just met the Oda clan after giving them a stinging defeat. I never really played them or fought them in Vanilla, so I wasn't expecting much trouble from them. It turns out that Darth Mod makes the Ashigaru 2x more reliable and combine that with the upkeep and morale bonus from the Oda clan...they are absolutely beastly.

With Darthmod on they are one of the most easiest clans, just due to how fast and cheaply they can whip up those Ashigaru stacks. The Ikko-Ikki never seem to keep the Oda in check but then I have not seen them survive for even that long.*Wonders if he is the only person who beelines researching Essence of Spirit first*

I need to play the Oda clan sometime...

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Yeah I never played them before Darthmod, so I don't really know how they are without it. but with it I think it really captures the essence of what they were meant to be.

Let's not forget that the man who unified Japan during the Sengoku Jidai, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, was born in Owari, the home of the Oda, started off as an Ashigaru soldier in the army of Oda Nobunaga, and rose through the ranks to become a general and lead the Oda clan to victory over all Japan. So it almost seems appropriate.

I think your major problem here is Darthmod. While great for Empire I don't think DM is necessary for Shogun2 - the vanilla game is really nicely tuned as is. Ikko Ikki DLC adds A LOT of fun (trouble) to the center of the map and will force you to invest in some monks to try and stop their religion if they get going. Oda have a tough few opening turns but once you have established a few provinces I believe they can be very secure. You can conquer all the way down the coast until you reach Takeda which is a very safe route for expansion. Likewise South Shinano is a perfect chokepoint province to hold before you look at expanding into the region around Kyoto (where it gets funky).

I wouldn't say they are the easiest, but definitely not as hard as some as their Ashigaru are rather bonkers.

Then you have a stack in a unfavorably position the get them back. it needs a year to get them back to your starting province. it's better to let them there, while you try to solve some problems with diplomatic and get new stacks near your starting province.

The Oda in my opinion have the hardest first few turns. Its one wrong move and you lose. Luckily the strategy I've developed after a few failed games now works almost every time. Take your initial army, crush the rebels but make sure its still close enough to the castle that it can defend it. The next turn Tokugawa Hidetada and his army come up, and after defeating him pursue him and destroy him, likely leaving you in Mikawa. Mikawa in all likelihood is completely undefended, so its an easy grab (As a note, if you make the Tokugawa vassals, the Imagawa usually uses it's ships to land an army in Owari, so be prepared). During all this you should have been creating as many Ashigaru in Owari as possible, because probably by now the Saito will be attacking (Cheap Ashigaru make this multi-front warfare trivial). If you can repel them Mino is practically yours. The Imagawa shouldn't prove too difficult to follow up on, and after that its up to you.

After those first few turns the Oda are probably one of the easiest, as cheaper and better Ashigaru are a massive bonus. I don't have the Ikko-Ikki DLC, but I imagine if any clan can take on them its probably the Oda ( Nobunaga didn't like monks after all, let alone heretic monks...).

Called it - even with the Chosokabe mentioning, since Chosokabe is not really a faction but more a practice kit in all the basics (trade nodes, Christianity, longterm planning, shortterm invading, all present but easily accesible and not very punitive).

Nothing beats the Oda Zerg. Its true on normal and its twice as true on Legendary.

With Oda you can also begin with 2 Stacks (one strong, one weak) and then attack the rebels with both stacks. I'm not sure if you have to kill all in one battle, but i think you don't need to. the weak Stack should have some losses and the strong stack at least as possible. with the weak stack you can take mino.(only one unit defending, so 2 weakened units still win). with the strong stack you have to defend your starting province.
I'm not sure with the details, but I think you have to split the weak stack and don't use all movement range of the strong stack.
That tactic I use on legendary.