My first campaign [Shimazu], experiences and some questions

Hi everybody,

in to my first (normal difficulty) SP campaign with the Shimazu, having lots of fun with interesting naval and land battles. Managed to conquer 6 provinces but I'm getting on too slowly and considering starting over because I have made bad decisions and although my economy isn't soooo bad (income is about 1500 koku each turn) I already have all Japan in hostile attitude against me so I can't make any trade agreements nor allies. Shoni are putting a tough resistance at Bungo, only province I haven't conquered from Kyushu. They now have a very strong army there.

2 of the battles I have most enjoyed were in the following 2 situations.

I was defending Hizen with only 45 Samurai retainers against a unit of Yari Ashigaru, another of Bow Ashigaru and their General. Kept out of range from missile fire, so the Yari Ashigaru climbed the walls to attack me. My Samurai wiped out the Yari Ashigaru with ease, then the Bow Ashigaru ran out of arrows and climbed the walls as well and followed the same fate as the Yari. Finally the general unmounted the horse and all of them climbed the walls and I had won the battle with still 20 men left after beating more than 200.

Another wonderful battle was on a terrain most might recognize. You start off with a very high hill to the right and a lower one to the left. The attacking clan on the other side has some trees to hide before they approach the hills. I wanted to lure them through the passage and then move quickly my archers on top of both hills and it worked perfectly. Arrows rained down on them and by the time their Naginata and Samurai reached me I already had gained advantage to outnumber them. Their units started routing and then I chased them with my generals cavalry to finish them off.

Now on to my questions, some might be really simple.

- I read a lot the word "vanilla edition" or just vanilla. What is it?
- In the Higo province there are some warhorse stables. Can these be upgraded from there or must it be done from the province main building? Generally speaking, do you recruit units from the specialist buildings or are all actions to be taken at the province main building?
- Sometimes I see golden arrows pointing upwards on the buildings, sometimes not, what's the difference? I mean both (with and without arrows) can be upgraded provided you have enough koku, right?
- Starting as the Shimazu clan, what are the best allies and trade partners? Better to have an ally that is far away so you don't have to deal with them later on or is it better to have them close so you have one less enemy who can attack your provinces? Maybe it's better if I find out myself.

I know I had more questions, but can't remember what they were. Will ask again if I have more questions. ;)

Regards

- vanilla edition means that the game is played unmodded and without DLC's.
- From the main building, I believe. Recruiting likewise.
- You'll see such an arrow if you have the kokku and the necesarry tech researched. Right click on the image if you want more info.
- Allies and trade partners are at your own discretion. Best read up on the guides and Maltz's AAR.

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

- vanilla edition means that the game is played unmodded and without DLC's.
- From the main building, I believe. Recruiting likewise.
- You'll see such an arrow if you have the kokku and the necesarry tech researched. Right click on the image if you want more info.
- Allies and trade partners are at your own discretion. Best read up on the guides and Maltz's AAR.

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OK, thanks for the replies.
Just curious, but this takes me to another question. Can I play a Steam installed modded Shogun 2 TW? I'm afraid of modding files and that later on my Steam version won't work.

I'll have a look at the guides and Maltz's After Action Reports and see what I learn. Thanks for the tip.

btw. Just remembered another of my doubts. What is the Avatar conquest all about?

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. ;)

small addition to your 2nd question: All units BUT ships are trained directly from the Main bulding aka the castle. To build ships you need to select the harbor.

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Originally Posted by Arekkusu

OK, thanks for the replies.
Just curious, but this takes me to another question. Can I play a Steam installed modded Shogun 2 TW? I'm afraid of modding files and that later on my Steam version won't work.

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No problem, I've been playing a few modded versions and I've had no problems with steam.

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Originally Posted by Arekkusu

Starting as the Shimazu clan, what are the best allies and trade partners? Better to have an ally that is far away so you don't have to deal with them later on or is it better to have them close so you have one less enemy who can attack your provinces? Maybe it's better if I find out myself.

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There is no best ally - unfortunately. Allies are either here to drag you into unecessary wars, or backstab you when their oversimplified script tells them this is a good idea. Only sign an alliance if you absolutely needs to secure one side that you cannot afford to defend. But it is still a better idea to recruit more army when you can afford the upkeep, so your neighbor is not encouraged to attack you. Economic development must be coupled with military development.

Try not to ally with anybody so you can trade with everybody. The best trade partner is the one who does not charge you thousands of kokus to sign the trade agreement. Their attitude might change after a few turns, so come back and check more often.

There are a lot of "butterfly effects" in the early turns in the game. Some idiot may move away their full-stack just far enough from their border so another lucky neighbor can steal their home with no consequence. So you will end up with very different survivors every game. Difficulty level affects how fast Japan is reduced from many weak clans to a handful of very powerful clans.

As Shimazu I like to ally with the Sagara on turn 1. I have always found them reliable; they stand by me until realm divide, or until I decide to kill them. The key is ensuring that they have a higher opinion of my clan than of the AI. To achieve this I marry into their family ASAP. Due to their location the Sagara are pretty useful in the early game. At worst, they protect one out of the two paths into my lands. At best, they send armies out to help me when I'm fighting in the northern sections of the islands. Once they have a full stack to protect their home I find it's quite likely that they will start looking outwards and join me in battle, and they have proven pretty useful on occasion.

If I don't ally with the Sagara myself, one of the AI clans will do and then I always find them directing huge stacks into Satsuma. Since they wait until I'm fighting the Ito or Otomo before declaring war on me, that forces me to fight on two fronts and early in the game that's not affordable.

Since relations are stable and there's a road connection between us, they make a good early trade partner too. By the time I reluctantly move to kill them I don't need their trade income any more.

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Shoni are putting a tough resistance at Bungo, only province I haven't conquered from Kyushu. They now have a very strong army there.

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How did you get on with this situation?
Are you in a position to attack the province from two fronts now?
If so lure their army away from the castle, (tricking them into attacking a small insignificant, force and then retreating can work)
After luring them away you can take the province with a secondary force and then defend the province from a siege point of view which can be much easier..
Also if you time it and take the province at winters end turn they will be left in your newly acquired province and suffer winter attrition which can help greatly if numbers are tight..

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Originally Posted by Maltz

There is no best ally - unfortunately. Allies are either here to drag you into unecessary wars, or backstab you when their oversimplified script tells them this is a good idea. Only sign an alliance if you absolutely needs to secure one side that you cannot afford to defend. But it is still a better idea to recruit more army when you can afford the upkeep, so your neighbor is not encouraged to attack you. Economic development must be coupled with military development.

Try not to ally with anybody so you can trade with everybody. The best trade partner is the one who does not charge you thousands of kokus to sign the trade agreement. Their attitude might change after a few turns, so come back and check more often.

There are a lot of "butterfly effects" in the early turns in the game. Some idiot may move away their full-stack just far enough from their border so another lucky neighbor can steal their home with no consequence. So you will end up with very different survivors every game. Difficulty level affects how fast Japan is reduced from many weak clans to a handful of very powerful clans.

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Many thanks. Interesting point there about the allies.

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

As Shimazu I like to ally with the Sagara on turn 1. I have always found them reliable; they stand by me until realm divide, or until I decide to kill them. The key is ensuring that they have a higher opinion of my clan than of the AI. To achieve this I marry into their family ASAP. Due to their location the Sagara are pretty useful in the early game. At worst, they protect one out of the two paths into my lands. At best, they send armies out to help me when I'm fighting in the northern sections of the islands. Once they have a full stack to protect their home I find it's quite likely that they will start looking outwards and join me in battle, and they have proven pretty useful on occasion.

If I don't ally with the Sagara myself, one of the AI clans will do and then I always find them directing huge stacks into Satsuma. Since they wait until I'm fighting the Ito or Otomo before declaring war on me, that forces me to fight on two fronts and early in the game that's not affordable.

Since relations are stable and there's a road connection between us, they make a good early trade partner too. By the time I reluctantly move to kill them I don't need their trade income any more.

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Will take your advice for my 2nd try with Shimazu because in this campaign it's not possible anymore.
btw. Your guide is brilliant. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Fagar

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How did you get on with this situation?
Are you in a position to attack the province from two fronts now?
If so lure their army away from the castle, (tricking them into attacking a small insignificant, force and then retreating can work)
After luring them away you can take the province with a secondary force and then defend the province from a siege point of view which can be much easier..
Also if you time it and take the province at winters end turn they will be left in your newly acquired province and suffer winter attrition which can help greatly if numbers are tight..

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Well, let's see, I haven't done anything new since my last post but to answer your question, yes I could attack from Higo and Hyuga although both armies together are still smaller than the Shoni. Maybe luring them away with a small force is a good idea but something I still don't master is to know how far units can move on the map and what distance from the castle should be enough for them to come after me but not being able to return in the same turn. One last question about the seasons. Shouldn't I take the province in the Autumn End Turn so that they are out on Winter Turn? If I take province in Winter turn then in Spring turn they will try to recover the castle. I still don't get this quite. :wall:

Thanks again for the tips

Arekkusu ;
How far your units can move is dependent on what level of road upgrading system is present in the province..The better the upgrade the further they can move, but this is applicable to all armies in this province..
Factors such as having agents embedded in the armies and some individual generals traits can also add to line of sight and movement potential on an individual basis and something to be be aware of..
But generally speaking if you click on the army and drag the arrow out you will see the line turn from yellow to red this is your armies movement capability and a good indication of the enemies as well..

I have recently tried the tactic of siegeing the enemy with an inferior (and expendable) force, then breaking the siege and running like a scared little lamb:creep: (all in the one turn)...This tends to set the defending army off after me like a rabid dog! ;-). leaving the castle all or totally undefended..and ripe for the picking from your main force..

As to the seasons..yes they will try and recover the castle in spring turn but they will have lost good men to winter attrition and those few men can make all the difference. Their losses will undoubtedly be high in trying to take the castle back and not one of their units will have a completely full compliment, this can make a big difference in getting them down to routable levels of men..