Looking for advices with the use of elite hoplite units.

Asingle unit of Elipktoi Hoplites ve been attacked by an unit of Illyroi (Coastal Levies). I was surprised to see them victorious after they totally anilhilated my Epilektoi ! So, I reloaded and try again, (this time, using the guard mode on) and it turned out to be the same result (except, the slaughter began a bit slowly...). I used a charge, tried to put them on the higher ground, used the trees and rocks to protect their flanks, to get the same results....
Then I loaded again and checked if I was the problem by using automatic battle, and it's been an average victory for my Epilektois... So, I have to assue I don't know how to use hoplites...It's weird, cause I rarely loose a battle in this game, and if I'm not particularly good at war games, I don't think I'm particularly bad neither ('I guess....). I am a chess player after all....
Well, I think it's time for learning. If anyone have experience in the use of hoplite units, and particularly elite hoplite units (which are so easy to surround because of their numeric inferiority when they are on their own), I would be glad to be given some advices !

Ah yes, Illyrioi Paraktioi (Illyrian Coastal Levies) with their armour-piercing maces.....they're evil, armour is no protection against them. AP trait is a bit too effective sometimes in EB.

Close-order Hoplites are at their best when used in conjuction with other units to help protect their flanks. One on one, they're fine against other hoplites, not so good against units which are large enough to overlap their flanks.

I use my best hoplites on the right hand end of a levy hoplite line, where they are less likely to break when attacked on their unshielded right sides. I use them in the same four-man depth as my levy hoplite line, not in a less deep formation because there are fewer of them. It's not their killing ability that's useful, it's their ability to take relatively higher losses before routing. They buy you time to get some help over to the threatened flank.

thats why i hate KH, whenever i play them its attrition battles and u need 3 armies to conquer even the easiest regions such as italy or spain

I rely a lot on mercenaries with KH - in the early days, they have good line infantry (although not as good as Macedonian phalanxes) but relatively poor flanking infantry, and they don't have heavy cavalry FM's either.

Cretan archers and Thesslian heavy cavalry are worth their high price in gold, and Gallic swordsmen make great flankers. Mercenary phalangites are worth their cost too.

Since I play M/M, the AI doesn't hire mercs itself, so they're all available for me.

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Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato

Ah yes, Illyrioi Paraktioi (Illyrian Coastal Levies) with their armour-piercing maces.....they're evil, armour is no protection against them.

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And they're completely useless against Barbarian infantry (which typically has no armour, high dexterity, and plenty of javelins). Peltastai should work well against Illyrian Levies, or use some other combination of sword and javelin. Mercenary Gallic swordsmen are very helpful there. Archers and slingers can help, too.

[QUOTE=Titus Marcellus Scato;2053434645]Ah yes, Illyrioi Paraktioi (Illyrian Coastal Levies) with their armour-piercing maces.....they're evil, armour is no protection against them.

Yes, after that treatment, my epilektois were ready to be used as steaks in a Big Mac. What surprised me is that the auto-battle turned in favor of the hoplites...

You mention that you always play on M/M. I was wondering how to find a balance between the weakness of the AI factions in medium setting and the repetitive waves of full mercs stacks that makes the hard setting a bit tiring. Do you use house rules to re-balance ?

Slow expansion, some house rules, interventionist politics (trying to keep a "balance of powers" of sorts). I also use only a few mercenaries.

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Originally Posted by Brennus 024

You mention that you always play on M/M. I was wondering how to find a balance between the weakness of the AI factions in medium setting and the repetitive waves of full mercs stacks that makes the hard setting a bit tiring. Do you use house rules to re-balance ?

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Yes, I do use house rules.

1. Always prioritise town building over army recruitment, except when faced with an invading enemy.
2. Annex new territory only for a good reason, e.g. if economy not making enough profit, or to replicate historical achievements, or to control Homeland provinces. Otherwise stay at peace whenever possible if civilised, or if barbarian, just raid and loot enemy provinces and then withdraw.
3. If earning too much money, spend it on expensive things like mercenaries and ships. Or give large donations to your allies.
4. Never, ever completely destroy a AI faction until you want to achieve your victory conditions at the end of the campaign (e.g. I defeat Rome by taking all Roman provinces apart from Rome itself, which I leave alone until the very end.) Otherwise, leave the enemy faction with at least one city.
5. Never destroy wonders for easy money, only destroy for a good reason (e.g. they were built by an especially hated enemy.)
6. Use as many mercenaries for offensive operations as possible. Recruit as few troops as possible from towns and large towns, unless needed to repel a foreign invasion - recruit mainly from cities.