Appreciation Of Total War games leading to Rome II

Appreciation of Total War (From Medieval 1 to Shogun 2)

I would really like to put down the things I appreciated in total war single player games, both the turn based campaign and real time battles. I cannot say that I have played the very 1st total war game, namely Shogun Total War. But I have played every game from MTW to S2TW. (Still haven’t had the time to dwell into S2TW: RotS and FotS, yet)
So here goes:

MTW & MTW:VI (Medieval Total War & Viking Invasion)

1) The concept of civil war when generals’ loyalty drops, and the option to take the side of the rebels or loyalists.
2) Taking prisoners on the battle field, option to either execute or exchange them.
3) Weather effecting way the battles plays out for both the defenders and the attackers.
4) AI’s ability to leave the battle ground if the odds are against it. Or the withdrawal of the reinforcements if the odds seem bad. (i.e. if the main army is in already in flight!)
5) Events being mentioned according to historical facts. (small pop-ups, about some incident/event in specific year)
6) Ability to grant titles to your faction’s generals/family members.
7) Titles given to generals according to the places they have captured.
8) Marrying off family members, and due to marriage direct claim to those faction’s lands.
9) Re emergence of some factions and emergence of new factions (If I recall correctly the Burgandians and the Swiss)
10) Assassins and spies can be directed to kill or spy on your own generals respectively, for your own reasons.
11) A wonderful mix of agents.
12) Religious agents causing riots/revolts.
13) The image of the settlement in the campaign map and battle map, changes as you develop it.
14) Ability to recruit and produce, special units and resources in certain regions, respectively.
15) Ability to blockade ports.
16) Fighting against historical horde armies, from the east.
17) Some cavalry units can dismount and fight on foot, before the start of battle.

RTW (Rome Total War)

1) The concept of three great families and central governing senate, if playing as the Romans.
2) An AWESOME campaign map, with features of the Ancient World Wonders.
3) Ability to fight next to such immense structures, in the battle map.
4) For the 1st time (and sadly, so far the last time!) to view all your settlements and its architecture and various building you have built, or was present.
5) Ability to appoint an heir of your choosing.
6) Ability to build forts and watch towers on the campaign map.
7) Enemy army causing pillage, if stationed in your region.
8) Rebels / pirates disrupting your trade routes.
9) Most historical disasters animated on the campaign map.
10) You get to hear your general’s inspirational speech before the battle, and use his rally ability during the battle.
11) Attack at night according to your general’s ability/traits.
12) Ability to fight on the battlements of castles.
13) Campaign time period divided into seasons.


RTW: BI (Barbarian Invasion)

1) Ability to create barbarian hordes for certain factions, and migrate.
2) Ability to choose the religion for the Roman faction. (western)
3) When certain barbarian factions lose their last settlement, they turn into a horde army.
4) Certain units can swim across the river on the battle map, in a bridge attack / defense.

RTW: Alexander
1) Fast paced game revolving around the life period of Alexander the Great.

M2TW (Medieval 2 Total War) & Kingdoms

1) For the 1st time some units could deploy stakes on the battle field, before the start of battle. (if my memory serves right, English Longbows)
2) Merchants were introduced for the 1st time.
3) The aspect of castle and town, and two different build trees.
4) Ability to ransom, execute or release prisoners, after a battle.
5) Ability to elect your pope for the catholic faction.
6) Agent actions portrayed elaborately in cut scene videos. (I believe this was 1st introduced in Shogun Total war, sorry I have no 1st hand experience of playing it.)

ETW (Empire Total War)

1) Naval battles for the 1st time.
2) Extended campaign map (Europe, South Asia, North and Central America)
3) Introduction of special trade regions/nodes.
4) Raiding trade routes.
5) Appointing minister for your government.
6) Upgrading of forts on the campaign map.
7) Introduction of the technology tree.
8) New agent, The Gentleman.
9) Ability to raid enemy infrastructures in the province.
10) Ability to use/make some structures on the battle map as fortification for your troops, during o before the battle.
11) The range arch of cannons and missile troops, made visible.
12) Ability to recruit your own generals.
13) Ability to replenish troop #s, while in a friendly province and in the field.
14) According to city size and upgrades, they get permanent garrison civil militia units at the time of a siege.

ETW: NTW (Napoleon Total War)

1) Attrition on your army, if it is in enemy territory during the winter months.

S2TW (Shogun 2 Total War)

1) The ability to make the choice of selecting ancillaries and traits for your generals and agents; as they gain Xp points.
2) A special infrastructure in certain provinces makes the difference in certain unit’s attributes. (for example; the same bow ashigaru units, trained in certain provinces have longer range and more ammunition, than their same counter parts)
3) The option of exchanging hostages, in the diplomatic screen.
4) Introduction of “Dilemmas” and accordingly its consequences portrayed in the game play.
5) Ability to make a clan/faction your vassal when you conquer their province from some other clan/faction which holds it.
6) Attrition on your navy when it sails/rows away from the shore, during the winter.

The above are the features I have come to appreciate, in the Total War games, I have played. Friends, please forgive me if I had missed any other awesome features, and feel free to add. And I hope many other players will agree too, and would love to see many of them incorporated into the new upcoming Rome II Total War.

P.s: I have not played multi-player, so I cannot comment on that.

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6) Attrition on your navy when it sails/rows away from the shore, during the winter.

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JUst when it goes away from the shore and the reason for that wasn't that ships magically have attrition when sailing around but because the shitty little ships in vanilla Shogun 2 are just like channel boats.

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Originally Posted by edbenedict77

ETW (Empire Total War)

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Addendum: Powdered wigs. The TW series had a notable lack of powdered wigs before this game.

Nothing much to add except thank you for a excellent list. :yes:

I would add the Crusade mechanics to the MTW post. Picking up a handful of troops you couldn't normally recruit as the Crusade made it's was to the Holy Land was pretty cool, and I used to love bringing them back home when the Crusade was over. Didn't play much M2TW, but I don't think it worked the same way?

More MTW love:

Vice and Virtues. Some make for really entertaining roleplay!
Moddability. The VI expansion made the whole game much easier to mod, from simple tweaks to fullblown conversions.
Epic, meaningful battles!


Edit-> Almost forgot: Camels!

MTW: When you are jolted from contemplation by the strumming of a guitar, borne on a desolate wind.

How about a little love for the original Shogun Total War, the one that started it all?


It was the first PC title to combine turn-based strategic gameplay with massive real-time battles. (Yes, previous games like Lords of the Realm 2 had already introduced the series' signature hybrid TBS/RTS gameplay, but not on nearly so grand a scale.) Never before had gamers been able to control literally hundreds/thousands of men on the battlefield (where they weren't abstractly represented by a single icon) at once; the strategy genre had forever changed.

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

I would add the Crusade mechanics to the MTW post. Picking up a handful of troops you couldn't normally recruit as the Crusade made it's was to the Holy Land was pretty cool, and I used to love bringing them back home when the Crusade was over. Didn't play much M2TW, but I don't think it worked the same way?

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Likewise, Jihads were also fun (if not quite as epic) when playing as a Muslim faction. A little easy to abuse the mechanic (via spamming them), but still highly enjoyable!

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Originally Posted by drone

More MTW love:

Epic, meaningful battles!

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Indeed. The original Shogun also had these in spades.

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Originally Posted by drone

Edit-> Almost forgot: Camels!

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~D

MTW: More love here too!!!

HELP: Any way to play it in Windows 7 64bit PRO? I have tried compatibility mode but no luck so far. I can get Win 7 64 Ultimate if needed.

- Best soundtrack imo

- Arguable but...still love its risk-like campaign map mechanics:

In land: Fewer and much more significant fights (no more wandering 3 units spam armies all around) and each battle pratically meant control of a region (decisive). No more cat-and mouse chases...no more slipping small units right under your nose (i understand the idea of sneak marching ala Hannibal in the Etrurian swamps and consequent ambush at Lake Trasimene...but in a turn based system it's flawed, weird and not realistic since, even if not hidden, the other army can roam around the other freely during its turn)

In seas: Only one where you could REALLY barricade significant parts of the seas. Probably not so realistic though but in a turn based system there's no perfect system.

- BEST MULTIPLAYER!!!...i used to spend several hours playing online and the chat felt really cozy, bug free and that way clan wars or simple duels were really easy to organize on the go. Alongside CS 1.6, my most addictive MP games ever.

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Originally Posted by [cF]HanBaal

MTW: More love here too!!!

HELP: Any way to play it in Windows 7 64bit PRO? I have tried compatibility mode but no luck so far. I can get Win 7 64 Ultimate if needed.

- Best soundtrack imo

- Arguable but...still love its risk-like campaign map mechanics:

In land: Fewer and much more significant fights (no more wandering 3 units spam armies all around) and each battle pratically meant control of a region (decisive). No more cat-and mouse chases...no more slipping small units right under your nose (i understand the idea of sneak marching ala Hannibal in the Etrurian swamps and consequent ambush at Lake Trasimene...but in a turn based system it's flawed, weird and not realistic since, even if not hidden, the other army can roam around the other freely during its turn)

In seas: Only one where you could REALLY barricade significant parts of the seas. Probably not so realistic though but in a turn based system there's no perfect system.

- BEST MULTIPLAYER!!!...i used to spend several hours playing online and the chat felt really cozy, bug free and that way clan wars or simple duels were really easy to organize on the go. Alongside CS 1.6, my most addictive MP games ever.

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Yes! Someone who believes the RTW campaign system is worse from a game design perspective.

You should check out the Apothecary here for your Windows 7 problems. It solved my problems the last time I tried: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forum...?15-Apothecary

My list.

RTW:

- Population as a resource
- Reforms
- Animated cities that can be viewed outside of battle
- Wonders
- Epic (if ahistorical) units like Berzerkers. I know I'll get a lot of hate for this one :laugh4: No, I don't like the pigs and the Arcanii, but the Berzerkers are simply too fun to give up. Big naked men wielding historically inaccurate weapons and flinging elephants around. Can't you see the fun in that?
- This and this piece of music. I know I know - the Latin is broken. I don't care.
- Senate missions, early Republic generals being "old/true Romans" while the later Imperial era patricians are corrupt and decadent, and quite frequently incompetent.
- Forts and watchtowers
- Night Fighter from BI
- Horde factions from BI
- Interesting take on religion and temple bonuses
- Choosing your faction heir

What I do NOT like about RTW and it needs to be fixed:
- Historical accuracy (lack thereof) and imbalanced factions
- City growth turns from a benefit into a huge annoyance late game
- Broken culture penalty and unremovable buildngs that give penalties
- Severely imbalanced temple bonuses
- Incompetent AI
- Retarded diplomacy system
- Too easy

M2TW:

- Differentiation between castles and cities.
- Great unit rosters and historical events opening new units
- Guilds
- Expanded traits/ancillaries, truly the best way of leveling generals
- Pope
- Crusades/Jihads
- Eastern invasions (Mongols/Timurids)
- More unit special abilities
- More agents (and princesses)
- Extremely moddable

What needs to be fixed:
- Greater historical accuracy, more factions, larger map
- Challenge for the late game
- Better pathing for the AI

S2:TW
- Expanded agent system with leveling up, agent actions cost money
- Money is actually important throughout the whole game
- Smarter AI
- Better looking battles
- In-Game encyclopaedia
- Skill research makes your faction different and adaptable for each particular campaign
- Focused provinces, province bonuses and limited building choice
- Better diplomatic system and AI

What needs to be fixed:
- Remove skill trees for generals or reduce their significance
- Rebalance the effectiveness of Ashigaru armies vs. elite armies
- Rebalance autoresolve to give worse results than leading a battle
- Add forts and watchtowers
- Remove the calligraphy map
- Make the AI learn how to invade islands and how to recruit ground armies
- Allow regular retraining
- Population must be required for upgrading of cities
- Bring back castles/cities
- Fix the campaign map scrolling lag
- Increase font size to make it readable
- Make the game moddable
- Allow hotseat mode

Of course, the animated cities! I missed that, it was brilliant to see the city in all of it's splendour :yes:

i simply love the suggestion for greater historical accuracy :) It would make the Total war games much more interesting as you try to re-write/change/role play it :)

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Originally Posted by drone

More MTW love:

Vice and Virtues. Some make for really entertaining roleplay!
Moddability. The VI expansion made the whole game much easier to mod, from simple tweaks to fullblown conversions.
Epic, meaningful battles!


Edit-> Almost forgot: Camels!

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Originally Posted by quadalpha

MTW: When you are jolted from contemplation by the strumming of a guitar, borne on a desolate wind.

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This and this!

Oh MTW, how I love thee. A true and undeniable legend in the universe of computer gaming

Camels of course!

quadalpha makes a point that is important. The music (and voice acting) added to the atmosphere; it was not intrusive.

I hope for much improved historical accuracy; I have this fantasy that "I'm not really wasting my time if I'm learning something".

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Originally Posted by quadalpha

MTW: When you are jolted from contemplation by the strumming of a guitar, borne on a desolate wind.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WupiCG9GhGE
More Jeff Van Dyck please. :yes:

More Sean Pertwee, too. Fantastic VO artist. He was one of my favorite aspects of Medieval.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2bmyspD4s

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Originally Posted by Lemur

More Sean Pertwee, too. Fantastic VO artist. He was one of my favorite aspects of Medieval.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p2bmyspD4s

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He should have added in a "This is an age of darkness" around 0:26. ~D

I thought politics weren't allowed outside the Backroom...

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Originally Posted by drone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WupiCG9GhGE
More Jeff Van Dyck please. :yes:

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Ah, brilliant. You have such good taste in so many things.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

I thought politics weren't allowed outside the Backroom...

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Wasn't trying to be political, just grabbing a video that has a lot of Sean Pertwee talking. Just ... uh ... ignore anything political he says. That's the ticket, yeah ...

MTW:

The immersion factor is what really did it for me. The combination of the subtle yet brilliant campaign music by Jeff van Dyck as well as the sober colours of the campaign map meant that even playing a campaign with AR battles was still incredibly enjoyed.

As other have mentioned, the fact that most battles were decisive. If a rebel army spawned you had to deal with it or lose an entire province - none of this annoying 2 unit rubbish rebel stacks that get ignored for 50 years because you couldn't be bothered fighting them.

Immersion through music... I still listen to the soundtracks now and then when I want some relaxing music.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Wasn't trying to be political, just grabbing a video that has a lot of Sean Pertwee talking. Just ... uh ... ignore anything political he says. That's the ticket, yeah ...

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Your comment below the vid is political, in case that was lost on you for some reason.

Wow I think I should give MTW a try...

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Originally Posted by easytarget

Your comment below the vid is political, in case that was lost on you for some reason.

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Um, Lemur didn't *have* a comment below the vid. All he said in that post was:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

More Sean Pertwee, too. Fantastic VO artist. He was one of my favorite aspects of Medieval.

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Even if you're referring to drone's comment:

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Originally Posted by drone

He should have added in a "This is an age of darkness" around 0:26. ~D

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that was merely a reference to narrator Sean Pertwee's first line in MTW's introduction video. It wasn't a political comment at all, I promise. ~:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11xfNLrJDHg

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Originally Posted by Myth

Wow I think I should give MTW a try...

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I would absolutely recommend it...however, the problem is the game doesn't play nicely with a lot of modern rigs (it seems to hate most video cards made after 2005). Happy is the gamer whose PC can still run MTW!

i can but it crashes alot :P

Total War...? They're still making those then...? ~;p

Everything after MTW/VI was crap, it all got very "gamey", very civilization and very "disney"... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by easytarget

Your comment below the vid is political, in case that was lost on you for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Martok

Um, Lemur didn't *have* a comment below the vid.

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Maybe that's why he's named "easytarget"? It's a possibility.

I pay more attention to the VO artists than I probably should. I get a little thrill every time I hear the guy in Shogun 2 tell me about the "shameful display."

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Originally Posted by asai

Total War...? They're still making those then...? ~;p

Everything after M2TW/Kingdoms was crap, it all got very "gamey", very civilization and very "disney"... :rolleyes:

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Fixed for you :clown:

No but seriously I've heard good things about NTW and S2:TW is nice although not really as grand, moddable or varied as M2TW.