Playing as Koinon Helleon

Hello,

I'm playing as the Koinon Helleon and have managed to unite most of 'Southern Greece' (not Macedonia or Epirus proper), plus the majority of Hellenic Asia Minor, and Sicily.

I'm looking for a good unit to be my standard 'infantry of the line' and I've been trying to decide between the regular, classical Hoplitai or the Iphikratous Hoplitai. It seems like, historically speaking, moving to the Iphikratous Hoplitai would be appropriate...however the Iphikratous Hoplitai have 3 less armor and 1 less shield than regular Hoplitai (which is a big deal) though I do notice that they're 'Fast Moving' and have 'Good Stamina', though only 'Good Morale' as opposed to the Hoplitai 'Excellent Morale'.

So it really seems like the Iphikratous Hoplitai are designed to be more maneuverable but at the same time weaker and less able to form a line and hold it than their less evolved, Hoplitai cousins.

Am I missing something? Are Iphikratous Hoplitai more than meets the eye? Right now it looks like at best they'd perform the role I already use Thureophoroi for...

Nobody likes Reformed hoplites, I(and probably many other EB players)'ve been through this Dilemma of choosing between using the ahistoric classical hoplite or the ineffective Reformed Hoplite.

Reformed hoplites, having swords as secondaries could... no they still suck.

They however are capable of sapping(I don't know why classical hoplites are not) and the "hardy" trait helps a bit at running around, but if like me you prefer just putting your hoplites at a tight spot and let them defend the crap out of the enemy that's not an issue.
There afaik were some threads dealing with exactly this and maybeone of them hides an answer to this.

I just checked and came to the conclusion that they are only more usefull:
a) on walls
b) when attacking lighter troops

Their Kill rate (when lines are engaged) is also slightly higher, however their death rate is considerably higher.

I tend to let some young Athenian General "try out" a few units of them and as they always fail miserably, retain the old system. After all If you roleplay you have to consider that: IF the Greeks would have acchieved all that with classical Hoplites(or rather Haploi ;) ), they would have not thought about replaceing them, would they?

Heavy Reformed hoplites however have an AP secondary, so are worth investing in at times.

you´re doing it wrong

thorokitai either hoplitai or just the heavy spearman with the javelins

I don't do much recruiting as Koinon Hellenon. Hardly any, actually - especially in the early campaign. All I recruit are garrison units, skirmishers, slingers, toxotai, levy hoplites.

I play only M/M, and this allows me to hire all the mercenaries I want as the AI buys hardly any mercs on M campaign.

So I just hire mercs when I want a KH field army. Merc pike phalanxes as the core of my heavy infantry, merc classical hoplites on the sides of the pikemen, merc reformed hoplites outside them, merc Thureophoroi outside them. Plus whatever merc Gallic swordsmen and merc heavy peltasts I can get my hands on. And an FM or two, obviously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato

I don't do much recruiting as Koinon Hellenon. Hardly any, actually - especially in the early campaign. All I recruit are garrison units, skirmishers, slingers, toxotai, levy hoplites.

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This is pretty much mandatory for KH, and several other factions as well. Your finances simply do not allow much else in the short term. And units like slingers and javilineers give excellent bang for your buck as long as battles are small enough that you can micromanage them extensively.

Good stamina is a very real advantage, especially in hilly maps where you start on low grounds. That said classical hoplites are still superior for pretty much everything, allthough it is annoying to have to wait for them to get "fresh" again after walking uphill.

Personally, I upped the reformed hoplites to very good stamina. They're supposed to be a mobile unit that's decent in melee as well so that adds to what they're supposed to be good at. Even then however you could just as well use peltasts and thureophoroi in their place, so they're a bit redundant. I only use them sparingly for the sake of variation.