AI advantage?

This is something that's been nagging me for a while. It seems to me that units are stronger in the hands of the AI, even though their stats are the same , especially with bodyguard units

I have just started a Sarmatian campaign. I used my bodyguards (2 silver chevrons) to try and absorb the arrows (from sycthian archers) but they began to fall like flies. I lost 11 men before I pulled them out of range

On the other hand, when Im facing Sarmatians myself and I have 3 units of silver chev Cretans, they take no damage at all! Their bodyguard was only 2 bronze chevs

It is the same with KH bodguards and A few other units. Has anyone else noticed this?

Only armor and shields give resistance against arrows. Experience doesn't matter.

I can think of two explanations:
1) you're playing on hard or very hard difficulty for battles
2) height advantage. Can make quite a difference.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Only armor and shields give resistance against arrows. Experience doesn't matter.

I can think of two explanations:
1) you're playing on hard or very hard difficulty for battles
2) height advantage. Can make quite a difference.

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THIS^^

I have been monstered by units with height advantage. There is nothing like getting hammered by pilla while the Romans sit idly at the top of a hill (the big one outside of Athens) and your guys have a long way up.
As for battle difficulty, I can't say much for that as I have only once played on hard difficulty in vanilla.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think Battle difficulty does not mess with armor or shield and thus does not enter into ranged casualties, I could be wrong however.

The hight would also be my guess, where we see a slightly crooked landscape without cliffs etc. the AI sees the exact hight of every ground polygon and thus automatically takes these litte bumps. The Engine takes even a slight hight difference very serious, which often results in an advantage for the AI, I presume they upped this after they saw how stupid their AI is :D

there arent that many high places in the stepples. Anyways I was just asking why the AI bodyguards always seem to do so much better

Have you tested it in a costom battle on flatland? I do assume you are play'n Medium difficulty. Eventho the Steppe is VERY flat, even slight elevations that are hard for us to pick up make a noticeable difference.

Were you attacking a town? Archers on the hill near the plaza have quite a deadly height advantage. You have to charge them fast and get them in melee. That's always the way for horse archers (even armoured ones) to deal with foot archers.

The only other explanation for better AI bodyguard performance is that the AI generals get more and better traits than yours, there's a toughness trait that makes AI generals hard to kill.

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Originally Posted by mikepettyrtw

I have been monstered by units with height advantage. There is nothing like getting hammered by pilla while the Romans sit idly at the top of a hill (the big one outside of Athens) and your guys have a long way up.
As for battle difficulty, I can't say much for that as I have only once played on hard difficulty in vanilla.

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what campaign was this? how did romans get to athens ?? O.O

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

I'm not entirely sure, but I think Battle difficulty does not mess with armor or shield and thus does not enter into ranged casualties, I could be wrong however.

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No, you are right. Battle difficulty improves attack, defence and IIRC morale, but not armour or shield values.

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

The hight would also be my guess, where we see a slightly crooked landscape without cliffs etc. the AI sees the exact hight of every ground polygon and thus automatically takes these litte bumps. The Engine takes even a slight hight difference very serious, which often results in an advantage for the AI, I presume they upped this after they saw how stupid their AI is :D

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Does it take height into account? I recall battles where I simply walked round an enemy army on a slope to get the height advantage; and all the A.I. did was pivot its army to face me.

The S:TW/M:TW A.I. did consider height - in fact, it was rather good at it. A couple of times, after I had carefully manoeuvred my army to get the best approach, the A.I. simply abandoned its position and moved to another hill to deny me the advantage.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

The S:TW/M:TW A.I. did consider height - in fact, it was rather good at it. A couple of times, after I had carefully manoeuvred my army to get the best approach, the A.I. simply abandoned its position and moved to another hill to deny me the advantage.

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That weakness in the R:TW engine always annoys me too. When the AI chooses a poor position, I have to impose a house rule on myself not to exploit its mistake and just position my army as close to them as possible. (Except when my army is all cavalry and theirs is mostly infantry, then I'm entitled to position myself wherever I want since my army can move a lot faster than theirs, and can get the high ground first.)

When it's defending it usually seeks out and finds the spot where the terrain is just a tiny bit higher, however once I come close it seems their attempts to "counter" me outweigh the hight preference, I'd assume it's a fairly simple and not quite effective algorithm, well unless you fight archer duels.

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

I'm not entirely sure, but I think Battle difficulty does not mess with armor or shield and thus does not enter into ranged casualties, I could be wrong however.

The hight would also be my guess, where we see a slightly crooked landscape without cliffs etc. the AI sees the exact hight of every ground polygon and thus automatically takes these litte bumps. The Engine takes even a slight hight difference very serious, which often results in an advantage for the AI, I presume they upped this after they saw how stupid their AI is :D

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Battle difficuly has no effect on your units, but it increases the attack stats (including missile attack, AFAIK) of the enemy so that they're more lethal against your units.

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Originally Posted by Ca Putt

When it's defending it usually seeks out and finds the spot where the terrain is just a tiny bit higher, however once I come close it seems their attempts to "counter" me outweigh the hight preference, I'd assume it's a fairly simple and not quite effective algorithm, well unless you fight archer duels.

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Yeah, that's my impression as well. If the AI army has a lot of archers I usually get an above average amount of casualties on my side. Against their cavalry or melee infantry however, it's not hard to manoeuvre your own units to counter their height advantage. The AI of MTW 1 was much better at this.

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Originally Posted by seleucid empire

what campaign was this? how did romans get to athens ?? O.O

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I think I was playing an old Macedon Campaign in BI and ended up at war with the Romans. They launched a small amphibious attack on Athens; yet their army was so small that I just sally'd out to meet them. I think half my casualties were from pilla. I won nonetheless, but had a new found respect for the height advantage.

Factors that can explain that:

1. battle difficulty [as mentioned above]
2. height [as mentioned above]
3. generalship [if the AI general has more stars; + they also can have useful traits]
4. terrain [other than height]: some units get bonuses in forests, some get their stats reduced; there are modifiers for several terrain types for each unit. Get the full .edu info mod that allows you what units are best for each terrain.
5. how tired your units are. this relates to the height too. if your units have to climb to the mountaintop to reach the enemy they'll be exhausted by the end of the climb [unless the claim is done in small steps with rest-stops]
6. there are morale bonuses/hits that result from seige situations [starvation, etc]; check your general's trait list before the battle...
7. straight stats don't explain everything in EB; there's also weapon lethality, strike speed, armor piercing attributes, the mentioned terrain factors; again, get the full .edu info mod to get better access to those bits of info about units