Problems making money

This is my very first time playing EB. I've been aware of it in the past, liked the detail put into the unit types and the factions, but never downloaded it before now. Mainly due to a resurgence of interest in the ancient world, especially the classical era (always been a history buff.) I started playing the total wars again and got bored with my Seleucid empire game, with the only factions being me, Pontus with 2 territories and the 3 Roman factions so I decided to finally try this mod out. One thing I'm having a really hard time adjusting to is the lack of ways to make money, and the sheer expense of buildings and units. Mercenaries are all 2500+ gold, minus the archery-type units, there's no trader building tree...roads aren't as lucrative. Or maybe I'm wrong about those 2 things, but everything IS much more expensive. I get the reason why, as it is way too easy in vanilla to get 200K gold per turn with a combination of lots of territories and trader tree/farms/docks. I'm playing as Rome and I can't seem to get a good amount of gold even though I've captured 5 more settlements than what I started with. So what's the secret to getting more gold? Is it simply too early in the game to expect getting a good amount? Or should I have a lot of turns where I don't spend anything so that it adds up? Or are you supposed to have a bunch of territories before you get a comfortable income? I've also changed up the way I move troops around and replenish them, not being able to just throw mercs in settlements. But despite some of the adjustments, I still am pretty poor, with pretty much 3-4 troops in all but 2 cities, and 2 armies that are only stacked a little past halfway.

The more I think about it it seems like the thing is simply everything being so expensive. I get the reasons why stuff is of a higher price now, but it seems to be too far in the other direction, at least in the early going.

It's always good to develop your settlements asap: there are trader building trees, for the SPQR it should be the forum and its upgrades iirc...
Roads are always nice, gold and silver mines, soon as you take a provice with them might even be worthy to save mnai to build them; ports, even coastal clearances get you going eventually...

But most of all, what you really have to pay attention to are your expenditures: you get the army you can afford!
Garrisoning cities with anything other than the cheapest levies is a waste at the beginning. With the Romani, I don't even garrison every settlement, but only those at the borders...

Your army, should be a mixture of light infantry, missiles and just few heavies; cavalry you might want to stick with your faction leader to deal "surgical" charges and mop ups...
Ships disband them all...

Also get your diplomats around the world (especially the mediterranean) and get trade agreements...

If you think managing the Roman economy is hard, just wait till you try one of the barbarian factions...

If you're just starting out with EB, I recommend playing on M campaign difficulty. It may seem a backward step if you're used to playing VH campaign on vanilla (un-modded) RTW, but EB is a lot harder than vanilla.

As Arjos says, you can't afford a huge army in EB - town garrisons should be single Family Members, or single units of Accensi or Leves - the cheapest units available. You'll need all your decent units at the front line, and often you'll have to fight battles where the enemy outnumber you. You can't afford an all-elite army either, don't try building an army of all Triarii, it will cripple your economy.

Here's some useful guides for you:

Roman Guides:

Quintus Sertorius' Guide to Conduct Becoming of a True Roman (Redux for EB)

Roman unit guide

Other factions:

Carthage - Detailed Starting Guide for new players

A guide to EB blitzing, for new players

1.1 Saka Rauka Gameplay Guide: How to Get Out of Debt Fast and Other Assorted Things

Misc Guides:

A guide to making your EB look better

Guard Mode : The Art of Fighting in Formation.

List of Tactical Advice

I see then. Thanks for the help fellas. So then I guess the real key to settlements staying nice and subservient is to spend money on buildings rather than large garrisons. And having captured a few more settlements I'm starting to rake in a good amount of money now...hopefully I don't piss it away and find myself back in the red again :oops:

The Romans are actually easy to play economy-wise. Remember that you shouldn't be building stuff in your settlements every single turn. If you did that then your cities in 250 BC would reach a level not actually reached until like 100 AD which is prety unrealistic.

All you really have to do to stabilize the Roman economy is scupper that ship that's eating 1000 Mnai per turn in upkeep, and one of the units of Equittes that eat about 700. Once you take Taras you'll be rolling in cash. It has a population of like 5,000 and some fairly advanced economic buildings.

Also you don't need to worry about being attacked as the Romani. They're surrounded only by rebels. Once the Epeirotes are kicked out of Taras, you won't get attacked until about 230 BC and even then only if the Sweboz expand southward.

Remember to activate the script! Also remember to demolish any barracks and foreign government buildings each time you take a city so you can install your own government.

Personally, at the beginning of the Roman campaign, I usually am building almost continously.

Look at the Romani building tree in the EB/documentation/JMRC Building Trees folder:

Every Small Town (<2,000 citizens) should have, as a minimum:
A Government Building, a Coastal Clearing (if available), Roads, Wooden Palisade, Level 1 MIC, a Holy Site, Sanitation, Simple Farming, and a Trader's Shop.

Every Large Town (>2,000 citizens) should have, as a minimum:
Wooden Wall, Grain Storage, Sewers, a Small Shrine, Small Market, River Port (if available) and a Level 2 MIC.

Every Minor City (>6,000 citizens) should have, as a minimum:
Paved Roads, Stone Wall, Colonial Farming, Simple Racecourse, Residence of the Augures, Medicus, a Shrine, a School, Field of Games, Public Baths, Mercantile Pier, Forum, Blacksmith, Level 3 MIC.

Every Large City (>12,000 citzens) should have, as a minimum:
Arena or Hippodrome, Strengthened Granary, Aqueducts, Great Forum, Mercantile Port, Library, Temple, Level 4 MIC.

All that will involve pretty much non-stop building in the early years, at least as far as finances permit.

I build every turn regardless of the faction i play. Even as the saka, once I get out of debt I build whatever I can. Only once I have spare money (plus enough to keep building every turn) do i start to expand the army. The game is far more interesting when running around with a halfstack feels like a massive army and a mighty accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Blxz

I build every turn regardless of the faction i play. Even as the saka, once I get out of debt I build whatever I can. Only once I have spare money (plus enough to keep building every turn) do i start to expand the army. The game is far more interesting when running around with a halfstack feels like a massive army and a mighty accomplishment.

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Agreed. For Saka a half-stack is a mighty army, if they are nearly all horse-archers.

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Originally Posted by Blxz

I build every turn regardless of the faction i play. Even as the saka, once I get out of debt I build whatever I can. Only once I have spare money (plus enough to keep building every turn) do i start to expand the army. The game is far more interesting when running around with a halfstack feels like a massive army and a mighty accomplishment.

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I don't build every turn because if you read the building descriptions (especially as the Romans) you'll see that quite a few buildings just didn't exist quite so early. I'm not going to build a collisseum(spelled wrong I'm sure) in 260 BC. Also the doctor building (Medicvs?) I believe its description says it didn't exist until a certain time, or maybe that's the second Medicvs building, so I never build that until later. Also stone walls. I don't give all cities stone walls, just the major ones with significant historical value (like Rome, Athens, etc) the rest just get large wooden walls.

I still limit myself to half stack armies though. That has nothing to do with what I'm building and when or how much money I have. I always play realistically and one of my absolutely un-breakable rules is that an army can't ever be more than 10 units (11 including the generals unit) except the king/basileus/chieftain/top banana who gets to lead 15 units, but the army composition is always as realistic as possible with a good mix of levies and elites.

I guess my problem is that i like building games. i play total war as a game where I can build and develop infrastructure. I only conquer new lands when I have run out of stuff to build in the first area.

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Originally Posted by Blxz

I guess my problem is that i like building games. i play total war as a game where I can build and develop infrastructure. I only conquer new lands when I have run out of stuff to build in the first area.

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I play completely opposite to the way you do. I use realistic movement mod so as a result I always have 5 or so armies running around a huge and underdeveloped empire by like the 240s or 250s.

I only generate like 30 to 40 k so I really need to decide carefully how to spend my money. It's really fun that way