My condolances
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-n...-shooting-live
Beyond horrible
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My condolances
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-n...-shooting-live
Beyond horrible
A veritable tragedy.
It is horrible!
Now, bet on whether the Perp was on anti-depressants?
Gone off his meds without telling anyone…
Jesus.
If it was a single suicide maybe, but this? Going off anti depressants would make someone less likely to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherking
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
It seem like every time this stuff happens the shooter is on some serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
If it was only most of them it could be another tragic coincidence but so far as I know every one of these incidences have these drugs.
post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Correlation does not imply causation, in school shootings you could say the same for the prominence of male shooters over females and the fact that they are all considered nutjobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherking
Cue handwringing and lots of not thinking about gun control.
Women do kill people coming off these drugs. Phil Hartman was killed by his wife, she just didn’t go to a school and kill lots of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
We don’t actually know much yet, however. Let’s just wait and see.
We might also think twice about giving this stuff to people who like to play with guns…
edit: German news reported the shooter was a parent of a child at the school.!?
Anyone else hear more?
And there are thousands of homicides related to psychotic breaks not involving these drugs. Heck school shootings occured in the USA before such drugs were even developed. Again, Correlation does not imply causation, whether or not they are widespread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherking
I'm starting to think you are determined to find a link between antidepressants and homicides.Quote:
We don’t actually know much yet, however. Let’s just wait and see.
We might also think twice about giving this stuff to people who like to play with guns…
WIki and BBC says 20 year old man who had access to school. His body was found after committing suicide.Quote:
German news reported the shooter was a parent of a child at the school.!?
Anyone else hear more?
Every one? Are you sure?
Even if it were many, the reason seems self-evident: those who go on to commit shootings are likeliest to be on antidepressants in the first place.
Cutting off psychiatric treatment would probably only hasten the lapse into violence.
Not all antidepressants. Just SSRIs. They feature in all the school shootings and many others.
No one wants to stop someone who is depressed from getting help but this class of drug needs to be more closely examined.
That didn't take long to appear in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadalpha
The problem isn't with guns, the US is atrocious in recognizing the prevalence of mental disorders and we do not do enough to help those with problems.
Simple - are individuals on SSRIs more likely to commit battery or assault? Be public nuisances or disturb the peace?
There is no drug that 'makes you shoot people'. SSRIs are just generalized drugs for keeping serotonin in the synapse. This has many effects, some unknown or poorly understood, but 'begin to seriously plan out a spree shooting that would not otherwise have been conceived of' can not one of them.
Sure, the efficacy of the drug in treating depression may be questioned, but its complicity in shootings is one bizarre red herring.
Nowhere near all of them. School shootings have been going on long before SSRI's and will go on long after, the idea that SSRIs cause school shootings is no more a valid idea than the idea that the sort of people who go on school shootings exhibit symptoms that are prescribed SSRI's by medical authorities. Maybe grounds for saying SSRI's don't work and maybe we should use what makes doctors prescribe SSRI's to find ways of identifying warning signs of psychotic breaks but hardly grounds for saying it is a cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherking
It didn't take long for a very good reason, since it's the obvious question to ask and the most obvious solution. If you let 50 mentally ill people loose in a school without firearms, they won't be able to kill anything like the number of people killed today.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...FNTGWv4#t=101s
http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-chi...,5592318.storyQuote:
It didn't take long for a very good reason, since it's the obvious question to ask and the most obvious solution. If you let 50 mentally ill people loose in a school without firearms, they won't be able to kill anything like the number of people killed today.
Wait, let's read that article. Or just the headline should be enough:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
'Knife-wielding man injures 22 children in China'
'Injuries.' Not 'kills.' Now imagine the same man with a semi-automatic weapon.
You simply can't seriously try to make the argument that guns are not the prime cause of the deadliness of these attacks.
All the talk about mental health in this thread. Yes, it is an issue. Can anyone make the case that it's the most relevant issue?
And all this, for what? For the second amendment, that holy of holies? Is it worth the price? The second amendment is just a bone tossed to convince the people who are used to being told what to do by a piece of paper.
Absolutely worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadalpha
No, Indians attacking a school or an old may shooting the kids on the playground with rock salt, or the shootings at Kent State are not the same as the utterly senseless shooting we have seen starting with the University of Texas Massacre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
It is the crazy mass killing for no reason other than to kill people. Postal shooting, school shootings, Mc Donald’s shootings. Perhaps all these are just random nut cases who need the meds and shouldn’t have been at large anyway. Who knows? I am sure it is only a coincidence that they all were on SSRIs.
The news I am hearing say the 24 year old from New Jersey, went to his mothers apartment and killed her. Then went to the school and killed many of her students in her kindergarten class.
Death toll; 27, 20 children, 6 adults, and shot himself.
And this is going to be because you need the guns to fight off the federal government when it becomes evil, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
You said it, not I.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadalpha
This is why the reaction to those Texas secession petitions has been, 'Yes, please just go!'Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
What do Texas secessionists have to do with this tragedy?Quote:
Originally Posted by quadalpha
You obviously forget that theres a huge illegal gun market here. The criminals will get their guns, leaving the law-abiding without them.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadalpha
So the rest of the country can start moving toward gun control laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Anyway, I think I remember you from other threads. This will probably not be a productive conversation.
:shrug: Suit yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadalpha
Have a ban on anything except bolt action rifles, start a buy-back program for the newly illegal weapons, give it ten years and see if it's still as easy to get guns. Oh, they can also levy a 'gun buy-back' tax to finance the program.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooahguy
You think Texas is the only pro-gun state? Clearly you have never been to any of the southern states.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadalpha
You are a class A idiot if you think guns are not more deadly then knives.
For starters the military would just buy k bars, swords, shields and sandals if that was true.
Also the Indians would have bet off the early settlers. As he case was a gun beats an old form tomahawk.
The second amendment would have been the right to bear blades.
=][=
Look at the Chinese attacker using a knife. Two dozen wounded children. The American, kills his parents and then two dozen children.
=][=
Now to some this latest tragedy is the price for freedom. Remarkably this tastes mighty like a fetid zombie feast, twenty plus children dead for a taste of freedom.
Now it's your country, your lifestyle, your laws, your outcomes. With actions come responsibility.
So those advocating this lifestyle are also collectively responsible for the outcome. If you want to crow for every Olympic gold, or your local sports team win, or whatever other part of the nation, you will also have to cop it on the chin when your laws enable such a tragedy.
Strangely enough the rest of the free world is capable of dealing with gun ownership in a much more coherent manner and yet the US ranks below a lot of these countries in measures of freedom, wealth and health.
Whatever it is, I think we can all agree that this wont change anything. People are going to whine about more or less gun control, the media will be on a 24/7 news cycle about this for the next few days until something else more interesting pops up, and nothing will happen, until this happens again and the cycle will repeat itself.
Its a shame too.