Happy Saint Patrick's Day to the Denizens of the Backroom

Slainte!

Plastic paddies

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

Happy St Patricks Day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnbU6PAXvoY

Some neighbours and cousins of mine

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Plastic paddies

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

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Pride in one's heritage does not preclude nor replace love of country. I am, and remain, and American exceptionalist despite the growing unpopularity of such a view. This you know Strike.

Thanks, GC. Sweet piece of music and i love her voice. Puts me in mind of a cross twixt Enya and Allison Krause.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Thanks, GC. Sweet piece of music and i love her voice. Puts me in mind of a cross twixt Enya and Allison Krause.

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She has a lovely voice an she is great craic too

American exceptionalism is a treasonable notion.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Pride in one's heritage does not preclude nor replace love of country. I am, and remain, and American exceptionalist despite the growing unpopularity of such a view. This you know Strike.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

I'm still hung over.

The USA is a great country and all SFTS, but we are still a nation of immigrants. I'm only three generations American or so myself. I'll take a multicultural celebration of our diverse origins over American Nationalism any day.

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I see no upside to worshiping some idealized version of the hellholes we collectively left behind. America is not some transient place for the meantime, it is home. I don't care if Europe rots, I will look to my shining city upon a hill.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

American exceptionalism is a treasonable notion.

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Go on

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Go on

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Originally Posted by Constitution

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

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:yes:

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

I suppose that's why our pluralist society is so awesome. We can both agree to disagree.

...however, the only thing that holds us together as Americans is faith in values that our government abandoned before it even got started. I'm not against Nationalism in general, but I need better reasons than "I live here."

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So you would rather celebrate some other nation because you're against nationalism?

Does breathing trouble you? Does it take a lot of mental effort?

@Monty

What does that have to do with American Exceptionalism?

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What does that have to do with American Exceptionalism?

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You need me to enumerate the pains caused to America by leaders steeped in exceptionalism?

There's a thread for some of them active in this very subforum.

Anyway: America is not a nation-state. There's no such thing as a nation-state (yet). Get over it.

Nationalism is not useful even as a stepping-stone to a human Hive Mind.

I've always felt that we have too few days to celebrate anyway, so IMO no matter what nationality, as long as one can find the smallest cause to relate to some festival, it should be celebrated.

Happy Saint Patrick's Day.

@Strike I suppose next you will be banning tacos or chinese new year.

The point:

Monoculture is a cool idea and all, but enforcing nationalism is like trying to hammer a square peg into a cylindrical hole, rather than simply carving the rectangular prism into a cylinder.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

The point:

Monoculture is a cool idea and all, but enforcing nationalism is like trying to hammer a square peg into a cylindrical hole, rather than simply carving the rectangular prism into a cylinder.

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And yet its Labour that admitted they had to take artificial measures to stifle nationalism and promote multiculturalism by increasing immigration levels.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

And yet its Labour that admitted they had to take artificial measures to stifle nationalism and promote multiculturalism by increasing immigration levels.

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If you ask me they only said that cos they couldnt admit twas done to suit the city boys in suits.

Labour driving down wages of the service sector doesnt play as well as Labour saving the UK from itself

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

And yet its Labour that admitted they had to take artificial measures to stifle nationalism and promote multiculturalism by increasing immigration levels.

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When did they do that, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

You didn't even read my post, man. I said I wasn't against Nationalism, just that I need good reasons to get all riled up about it. If you'll back in the thread, you'll notice you started this by saying St. Paddy's Day was an inappropriate celebration that might possibly conflict with being a good American (or, rather, that's the gist of the crap you quoted). I'm just trying to say that our own country is not that great, and is wholly founded on genocide, war, and oppression. Its just shinier. So, to me, St. Paddy's day is an excuse to drink and celebrate the fact that I'm slightly better off than my Irish peasant ancestors. I'll get drunk for Kwanzaa too, for that one black great-grandpa I have in my ancestral tree. Not sure how you're supposed to celebrate Kwanzaa, but what can go wrong with an excuse to drink? Screw it, I'll get drunk for Hannukah too. :shrug:

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So like everyone else then?

Did you just start "Introduction to University"?

OMG DID YOU GUYS HEAR WE MASSACRED THE INDIANS! OMG AMERICA SUX!

OMG

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

So like everyone else then?

Did you just start "Introduction to University"?

OMG DID YOU GUYS HEAR WE MASSACRED THE INDIANS! OMG AMERICA SUX!

OMG

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Those were not massacres, only Amerinds could massacre people. Our activities were merely "overly enthusiastic punitive responses."

If only we'd had Bob MacNamara running the Indian wars, think of all the lovely double-speak we could have had!

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Those were not massacres, only Amerinds could massacre people. Our activities were merely "overly enthusiastic punitive responses."

If only we'd had Bob MacNamara running the Indian wars, think of all the lovely double-speak we could have had!

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Conversely, imagine Phil Sheridan in charge of the Vietnam War.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Slainte!

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While we were certainly happy with the Irish festivities, we didn't care at all for the Irish weather that came with them. Please saint whoever is in charge of the jet stream, fix this...now!

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Conversely, imagine Phil Sheridan in charge of the Vietnam War.

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Well turned sir, well turned.

I am hugely nationalistic. For the Philippines.

Nationalism was a force-for-the-good (TM) in the days when people rarely left their village and were lucky if they could marry someone that wasn't a full cousin. It made "countries" more cohesive, more uniform and generally provided with better governance because no longer did every backwater/hamlet/shire need its own laws and institutions.

Nowadays, the people who propagate "nationalism" usually mean exceptionalism - meaning that their country is somehow different from the rest, and not in the way that every country is different. They mean that their country is entitled to more, does not need to follow the same standards as everyone else.

I'm not a cultural relativist and it's self-evident that some countries do X better and other countries do Y worse - but beyond "democracy" and "rule of law" most of the things that set countries apart are idiosyncracies and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Nationalism was a force-for-the-good (TM) in the days when people rarely left their village and were lucky if they could marry someone that wasn't a full cousin. It made "countries" more cohesive, more uniform and generally provided with better governance because no longer did every backwater/hamlet/shire need its own laws and institutions.

Nowadays, the people who propagate "nationalism" usually mean exceptionalism - meaning that their country is somehow different from the rest, and not in the way that every country is different. They mean that their country is entitled to more, does not need to follow the same standards as everyone else.

I'm not a cultural relativist and it's self-evident that some countries do X better and other countries do Y worse - but beyond "democracy" and "rule of law" most of the things that set countries apart are idiosyncracies and nothing more.

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Nationalism in the past meant people looking past the boundaries they were used to looking at, and embracing a wider world. Deutschland Uber Alles exemplifies that. Now that we've got past that, nationalism, rather than embracing the wider world, is aimed more at defining the differences between the group you're in and everyone else. Continentalism would be the modern day equivalent of ye olde Nationalism. If we ever get to think of ourselves as Europeans, North and South Americans, East and West Asians, etc, Planetism would be the next step.