Special Forces - who is the best?

I was wondering, out of the SF units that we know of, which one can we claim is the best?

For the USA I can name two:

Delta Force and SEAL team 6 (DEVGRU )

SAS for the UK.

Spetznaz (Alpha or Vympel teams) for Russia

Shayetet 13 for Israel

I've been reading incredible things about DEVGRU and Deltaforce. Also downright scary things for Spetznaz training. And a prevailing opinion online that SAS is still the best (not sure why, apart from the success rate of applicants - only 2% make it). However, DEVGRU are chosen from the other SEAL teams who are already elite, and Delta Force are chosen from the Green Berets and Rangers. Spetznaz have to endure inhumane training which is outlawed in the USA. They have to learn to like pain. Don't know much about the Israelis but seeing as how effective Mossad is, I cannot dismiss them.

I don't know about special forces, but my dad could beat up your dad.

SASR (AUS)



https://s27.postimg.org/gsgp3crmb/AUS_SASR.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

I don't know about special forces, but my dad could beat up your dad.

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Hey, we have a babe thread. It's what boys do. Maybe I should start a thread about "10 things to say to your guy to get him to do the dishes" or something?

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Originally Posted by PROVOST

SASR (AUS)



https://s27.postimg.org/gsgp3crmb/AUS_SASR.jpg

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Please do tell us about them.

SASR (AUS) is based off of the English SAS model and uses the same methodology overall.

Their deployment history differs of course historically but they are the "Tip of the Spear" type of Special Ops Regiment.

Here's their official website -

http://www.army.gov.au/Who-we-are/Di...rvice-Regiment

Their origins come from the unit known as Z Special Unit from WW2 period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_Special_Unit

I'd reckon they are all good

Spetznas win hands down, Alfa is more of a police special forces group as far as I am aware, the russian type of SWAT but with more vodka.

I would rate 'best' based on the success of missions. Unfortunately, we do not know those statistics.

From what I've been reading so far, It seems to me that Delta Force are the elite of the elite. The mere fact that they are not officially recognized as existing by the US government tells you something.

Not sure how to judge who the best are - they are all obviously vastly superior to regular troops, not to mention civilians. And information on secret operations is rarely, if ever, disclosed publicly. If anyone happens across an interesting read or video, please share. Here is something:

"SEALs stand for Sea Air and land Specialists they are very dynamic, they are always doing something new, right now SEALs operate every where and are a very elite special operations group, SEALs do Direct action missions, Hostage rescue, counter terrorism but at its core it was created for direct action, in and out missions, get in, get the job done, get out but they also do other stuff if needed. Regular SEALs have a Tier 2 designation.

Green berets, also know as Special Forces have a lot of roles too, but at its core they are force multipliers, they go in a war zone, blend in with the local population and form an army, I like to call them elite teachers, but they don't just do that kind of stuff, you can check it out on Wikipedia, I'm just telling the simple version. Green berets have a Tier 2 designation.

Delta Force is currently one of the worlds premier counter terrorism unit/Special missions unit, they are one of the top dogs of the world. They are recruit primarily from the Green berets the Rangers,these men are hand picked among the best of the best out of those units, and attend a selection process, where about 95% that try fail, and those that fail are already a very elite caliber of warrior, it's all very challenging and stressful, those that make it till the end and officially are Delta Force operators, still have to prove themselves because in those first 5 years they are looked at as the new guy, and still have to train and train and train, it's like being in your job 24/7, even when you back home having dinner with you family you can be called for an op, you have to pack your stuff, say bye to everybody, not tell them where your going and 8 hours later you are doing a black operation, In some **** country, on the other side of the world. Delta had some problems in the beginning just like DEVGRU but right now both Delta force and DEVGRU are running like well oiled machines. Delta Force has a Tier 1 designation.

Just a bonus, DEVGRU
You probably already know about them. DEVGRU recruits from the regular SEAL Team and they recruit the best to go through their selection process, once they pass they go to green team, etc etc, same story as Delta Force, but their drop out numbers is lower due to the way they were trained, their training gave them a lot of metal strength, just a regular SEAL is already a very very very elite caliber of warrior, now there's a culture difference between Delta and DEVGRU, Since DEVGRU operators come from the regular SEAL teams, and since the SEAL teams are all about direct action, hostage rescue and what not the government and the Navy Use them more for those types of missions, like all the hostage rescues missions you heard of and the mission to kill Bin Laden, while Delta came more from green berets which are all about winning hearts and minds, training people etc and that's why they aren't used in to do the types of missions DEVGRU does. But Delta also does the type of missions DEVGRU does and DEVGRU also does the types of missions Delta does. Both have a strong relationship with the SAS the SBS, and the SASR, they train together, fight together and learn from each other making them the best of the best together both at the same level although DEVGRU and maybe Delta Force have an extra edge over them because of the unlimited amounts of cash they have, they can buy and build everything they want and get the best gear you know, all the classified cool stuff, everything, weapons, vehicle, scopes etc and are able to get more advanced training, due to the crazy amounts of cash.DEVGRU has a Tier 1 designation, they are also the elite of the elite.

For more information on them, pick up, SEAL Team six memoirs of an elite Navy SEAL sniper, No Easy Day by Mark Owen, Inside Delta Force by Eric haney, and Fearless by Eric Blehm.
Check these out http://www.military.com/video/forces...1163917907001/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=vzHqqTmSnC0 ""

Even that doesn't help as the missions were different.

What we can safely say is they are all good, that they're given good training and expensive gadgets. Beyond that, we don't know a thing.

Well, Deltaforce and DEVGRU have Tier 1 designation so they get the toughest, most secret missions out there. We don't know anything about Delta missions. We know that DEVGRU whacked Bin Laden, the operation was stellar. Check the first link, they talk about it about 1/3 of the way.

Interesting details on operations in the further videos. Check out from min. 3 and onwards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=PmgVlGk3_gQ

Another interesting vid to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=59fL6ej_B-I

Spetznas are so secret, noone really knows whether it's Spetznas, Spetznaz, Speznaz, Spetsnaz, Spetsnas, ....

And they can rap better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixiH5zXJpEQ

Delta Force are just amateurs in comparison who need to leak propaganda to the military channel because noone wants to join them otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Myth

I was wondering, out of the SF units that we know of, which one can we claim is the best?...

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*highlight not in original


I have a sneaking suspicion that the best are the ones who do NOT meet that criteria.

Just for awesome's sake, a documentorary gone wrong

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bX01miySwkI

Also pretty cool, somali pirates http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3uHT0qsYxfw

The best Special Forces are the ones you never heard about them...

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Originally Posted by Husar

Spetznas win hands down, Alfa is more of a police special forces group as far as I am aware, the russian type of SWAT but with more vodka.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Spetznas are so secret, noone really knows whether it's Spetznas, Spetznaz, Speznaz, Spetsnaz, Spetsnas, ....

And they can rap better:

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Ok, that was funny. You get "thanks" twice and I officially declare you a humorous person even though you're German.

To be fair, the latin alphabet can't quite capture the Ц sound in slavic languages. It can be spelled as TZ, Z, C, TS, or any combination. The last sound is З which is most definitely Z. So it's either Spetsnaz or Spetznaz, both work well.

Anyone seen this movie? Employing active SEALS to play the parts seems quite interesting to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnlPgo9TaGo


Also, this is an interesting read http://theweek.com/article/index/250...-seal-team-six

Special forces are overrated. They are light infantry that cant hold shite. They have their role but are far from being Kings of battlefield.

EDIT: With second thought. I should not have even posted in this thread,i am just an reserve staff sergeant of mechanized infantry in Finnish army and never saw actual battle and hope God never will.. Still i think that the toughest infantry in any army are the breakthrough forces like Marines in US and British army or mechanized formations of most other armies. These guys are not supposed to dance around the enemy, but break it...Sorry my French..and i adore the French.:bow:

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Ugh. Special Forces. I swear if one more stupid movie about the SEALs comes out I'll puke. You'd think operators were the only people deploying if you just went by Hollywood. In reality they deploy less (well, for less time anyway) and they enjoy amenities the average grunt doesn't get. They're like the star quarterbacks of the military world: good, but kind of overpaid (well, over equipped anyway.. the extra money dont go to the troops) and overrated.

The biggest reason they are used is for secrecy, not because they're all that good. When you're kidnapping people or popping them in the middle of the night, best if its SOCOM troops with Top Secret or higher than a grunt who might decide to YouTube the whole thing.

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Oh come on you can't really think that. Based on their section process alone you will know that they get the creme of the crop. Just how good the crop is depends on where they're recruiting from. DF is getting recruits from the Rangers, Green Berets and the 82nd Airborne, and a very, very small percentage make it to the troop. Do really think spec ops soldiers are only marginally better trained/conditioned than grunts? The budget they get is absurd, and the gadgets are as well, so on that at least we agree.

If you watch the documentary on SEAL team 6 you'll see how many guys drop out during the training. Only 1 in 5 makes it to the end. That's 1 in 5 out of already a very high profile group of candidates. If your average US grunt was on that level I think you would have conquered the galaxy by now (interstellar travel notwithstanding)

Now, I'm all against stupid Hollywood propaganda and misinformation. Starting with swords making a *wwwhhiiingggg* sound when pulled out of a scabbard. But this thread wasn't meant for movies, it was meant for real information and actually I managed to get some out of it, so there's that. Also, no one is trying to diminish the importance of conventional troops. Not me anyway. But a question of whether the grunts or the Marine corps are better is pointless IMO, while a question of who is better between DEVGRU and Delta Force is pretty legit.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Special forces are overrated. They are light infantry that cant hold shite. They have their role but are far from being Kings of battlefield.

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They're not meant to hold shite as far as I know. It's like saying a B2 stealth bomber is useless because it can't haul as much as a C-130 Hercules.

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Originally Posted by Myth

They're not meant to hold shite as far as I know. It's like saying a B2 stealth bomber is useless because it can't haul as much as a C-130 Hercules.

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Again.I can only talk from my limited point of view. Special forces as they have been called ever since Green berets in Vietnam are basically small arms tactical units or glorified scouts. These are guys who are more in class of athletes compared to normal people, but in civilian life are athletes somehow superior? People should not be judged by their abilities but their merits. They are not supermen, but they have their key role in most of military actions. Still they eat lead like rest of us, most of time lack any AT capability. Dont have indirect fire support.In other words are not head on soldiers.

They get the job done. The job often requires a cohesive unit of professionals with various skills at their disposal. A small team that knows one another very well and trust each other in their individual skills is what is needed. Can the SEALS storm Baghdad and take it? No. Can they set up explosive charges on the defending artillery units to make the conventional troop's lives easier? Yes. Which one is better or more important? Neither. But how hard would you evaluate the potential candidate for the first job compared to the second job? (this is a bad example because you'd just call in an airstrike on the artillery, but I was making a point)

Again, the point of this thread was to discuss what we know about SF units globally and particularly between the two hailing from the USA. It was not meant to imply that these men are supermen or that they somehow make other troops useless. These men ARE superior in their skill set however. How else would you make your choice? Out of 100,000 candidates you get how many guys? 1000? Less even? They will have something making them stand out, and that's that.

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Originally Posted by Myth

They get the job done. The job often requires a cohesive unit of professionals with various skills at their disposal. A small team that knows one another very well and trust each other in their individual skills is what is needed. Can the SEALS storm Baghdad and take it? No. Can they set up explosive charges on the defending artillery units to make the conventional troop's lives easier? Yes. Which one is better or more important? Neither. But how hard would you evaluate the potential candidate for the first job compared to the second job? (this is a bad example because you'd just call in an airstrike on the artillery, but I was making a point)



Again, the point of this thread was to discuss what we know about SF units globally and particularly between the two hailing from the USA. It was not meant to imply that these men are supermen or that they somehow make other troops useless. These men ARE superior in their skill set however. How else would you make your choice? Out of 100,000 candidates you get how many guys? 1000? Less even? They will have something making them stand out, and that's that.

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Yes.Now we are running around in circles in this debate.How do you compare special forces of different countries or even within certain military, as their job is not to fight or kill other special forces. There is no comparison, only opinions. You can witness from any extreme performance, there is very little difference between individuals in competitive sports, less to say units.No country has some certified secret for military training. So ultimately the differences for the tasks they are set to do are negligent unless we are dealing with armies that are really out to date.

So does speak the best special force units today are those that have most experience without breaking coherence (aka not making the most experienced ones trainers), but not inherently because of their training but because of their experience.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

My only point is that I think a thread debating which "elite units" are the best is dumb. Nobody here is qualified to say anything for certain, and the mere fact that this thread exists makes me sad.

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Yeah, but it doesn't hurt to ask and debate. Sometimes you could get lucky. Meanwhile, here is the drill sergeant scene from FMJ to cheer you up: /watch?v=71Lft6EQh-Y

Gelly Cube is obviously jelly...

The way I understand this thread we are talking about the kind of Special Forces who are actually trained to do combat missions behind enemy lines to actually kill people and stuff. Because as has been mentioned, a lot of them, at least in the US military, are meant to do other things entirely and are not weapon experts. The first Green Berets were largely chosen for their social and language skills etc. Of course you might send a weapons expert to train locals on AK-47s or so but even that is not always required.

I read a book about Green Berets and it has some interesting info. Among the few parts I haven't forgotten was that they were used in Vietnam to train some mountain tribes who then fought the Vietcong with their native weapons, i.e. bows and blowpipes (not the british ones). They were actually really effective as they knew the area well and the Green Berets lived and worked with them. Then the US government wanted to get out and the south vietnamese army was supposed to take over. Unfortunately they didn't regard the mountain people very highly and treated them really bad and lost their support as a result. The border became as porous as it was before and we all know how well the war ended for the south.

Now I'm not sure how much better the Spetsnaz are at this task but as long as they're not dealing with gay mountain people, I believe they can do a better job.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Yes.Now we are running around in circles in this debate.How do you compare special forces of different countries or even within certain military, as their job is not to fight or kill other special forces. There is no comparison, only opinions. You can witness from any extreme performance, there is very little difference between individuals in competitive sports, less to say units.No country has some certified secret for military training. So ultimately the differences for the tasks they are set to do are negligent unless we are dealing with armies that are really out to date.

So does speak the best special force units today are those that have most experience without breaking coherence (aka not making the most experienced ones trainers), but not inherently because of their training but because of their experience.

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Looking at the way they recruit and whom they recruit from can tell you a lot.

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Originally Posted by Myth

Looking at the way they recruit and whom they recruit from can tell you a lot.

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So are we going to eugenics next? The stuff what it takes, superior humans.We really dont want to go down that slope do we my friend? This thread is just funny.Sorry.. :)

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

So are we going to eugenics next? The stuff what it takes, superior humans.We really dont want to go down that slope do we my friend? This thread is just funny.Sorry.. :)

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Huh? Sorry, I'm not following. Recruiting the best out of established SF forces, and also requiring experience makes you better than the guys recruiting raw boys. Not sure where you got all that eugenics stuff. Anyway, for people who think this thread is funny or stupid, you can stop posting in it and quietly feel superior. Isn't that the point of the backroom? :laugh4: I got what I wanted anyway.

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Originally Posted by Myth

Huh? Sorry, I'm not following. Recruiting the best out of established SF forces, and also requiring experience makes you better than the guys recruiting raw boys. Not sure where you got all that eugenics stuff. Anyway, for people who think this thread is funny or stupid, you can stop posting in it and quietly feel superior. Isn't that the point of the backroom? :laugh4: I got what I wanted anyway.

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I just thought that any nation have recruiting pool basically of any adult males they have and knew no restrictions for such and about raw boys. It is known fact that boys aka 18-25 make the best grunts because men tend to have more things to worry rather then glory, unless they have made it their focus in life. I think we just miss understood each other.~:)

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Its less about feeling superior and more about finding this hero worship crap repugnant. I'll leave you to it though, carry on.

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The jelly is strong in this one.

Feeling superior and worshipping heroes is the essence of major anglo culture. It is this mislead sense of superiority that makes Russians and their Spetsnaz so awesome because they actually are the typical anglo's wet dream of manly men who are tough and rough and stuff.

You see, even the military channel finds Spetsnaz awesome as long as they're killing brown people in burkas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb78rIgvOHc

You heard that? They train with methods that would be illegal in other militaries.
America may call waterboarding torture, Spetsnaz call it breakfast.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Its less about feeling superior and more about finding this hero worship crap repugnant. I'll leave you to it though, carry on.

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For me it's not hero worship. I don't worship Usain Bolt but I admire him for being the fastest sprinter in the world. War is not the olympics of course, but I'll ask you this: given the chance, would you disband these "primadonna"elite special forces units? Let's say you get to be the Secretary of Defence or something. Would you reassign their budget in favour of the conventional troops and remove them from the armed forces? Do you imagine a situation where it's more strategically advantageous to your country to NOT have operatives on the level of Delta Force and the SEAL teams? What about troop morale as a whole?

Take the elimination of Osama for example. Did that not boost morale through the roof? Whom would you entrust such an op to if you were in a position to make that decision?