EB Online Tournament 2014: A Call to Arms

EB Online Tournament 2014: A Call to Arms

Introduction
It has been a while and our swords have rusted, but I call on you to polish that steel and ready yourselves for another round of our dearest old friend, Europa Barbarorum Online summer tournament. In the days of old, we would run two or more month-long tournaments during the summer. Last year (2013) proved to us that EB as a multiplayer game was aging, nearing what seems to be its end. In honor of everyone who participated in the development of this great mod, which is now culminating in the first public release of its sequel, let us raise our swords one last time.

Setup
The setup should be familiar to the veterans. For the newcomers to the multiplayer scene, please visit our Getting Started and Rules pages so as to familiarize yourself with the necessary custom EDU as well as our detailed ruleset. Please do not feel daunted! It is simpler than it seems at first glance. This tournament will be a Single Elimination tournament with each matchup being determined by the Best of Three battles. The exception is the Finals which will be Best of Five. Players are seeded randomly.

Sign-ups, Start and End Date
Sign-ups are accepted until Thursday, 12 June 2014, at 11:59 PM EDT (New York; UTC -4 hours). The tournament thus begins on (wait for it!) Friday the 13th of June 2014. I will announce the closure of sign-ups with a reply to this thread and an update to this first post. The tournament ends when the finals are over. I trust the players to arrange their match times among themselves, but please resolve through the end of finals before 31 July 2014, before the release of EB II. Please connect using our Hamachi network (100-792-846; eb).

Prizes

1st Place

Europa Universalis IV
EB T-Shirt

2nd place

Skyrim
EB T-Shirt

Getting Started
Rules
Tournament Bracket

For all suggestions, concerns, questions or concerns, please reply to this thread or feel free to send me private message.

Game on,

Vartan

Reserved.

I will be installing hamachi tomorrow, I'll be available to play after that. Just chat me when I'm online on the network as when I'm on I can play.

can people from TWC sign up there? I brought some guys

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Sign-ups-Open

Count me in. I hope I can resolve the Hamachi lobby problem I've got since the change of PC.

Awesome, we have 11 members now. Let's get some more players! This will be great :)

Ok some rules suggestions:

No making use of redline border to benefit your forces.

Both players are designated attackers, they must do something to attack within a reasonable timeframe with at least one unit. (reasonable ala not sitting there forever)

Max 8 phalanx (or 6) units:

To prevent hardcore pike box. Can be dealt with but extremely annoying and time consuming. EB battles already have units fight to the last man in slow motion, no need to make it even more agonizing to watch. Plus in any regular army who brings more then 8 pikes? Heck even 6 is good enough.

Also we must reinforce heavily no pulling through enemy units, it's nonsense when you send a cavalry unit to pin an other cav unit and it just pulls through your unit. Happened to me lots of time before and I hope people do not pull off such cheap moves in the tournament.

There also should be a more stricter map pool with mostly flat maps.

so we can only choose 1 faction throughout?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman

Ok some rules suggestions:

No making use of redline border to benefit your forces.

Both players are designated attackers, they must do something to attack within a reasonable timeframe with at least one unit. (reasonable ala not sitting there forever)

Max 8 phalanx (or 6) units:

To prevent hardcore pike box. Can be dealt with but extremely annoying and time consuming. EB battles already have units fight to the last man in slow motion, no need to make it even more agonizing to watch. Plus in any regular army who brings more then 8 pikes? Heck even 6 is good enough.

Also we must reinforce heavily no pulling through enemy units, it's nonsense when you send a cavalry unit to pin an other cav unit and it just pulls through your unit. Happened to me lots of time before and I hope people do not pull off such cheap moves in the tournament.

There also should be a more stricter map pool with mostly flat maps.

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These are all great concerns to keep in mind and I'd like to hear what the players involved think about this. I also wonder what any vets think. I'm looking at you Storm and TCV. Obviously I want to steer as clear from my own input as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orphydian

so we can only choose 1 faction throughout?

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No. This isn't a monthly tourney like we used to have. This is an elimination tournament. Say player A faces player B in the first round. It's best of 3. In game 1 we might see Rome vs Sele, game 2 might be Pahlava vs Casse, and game 3 might be Sauromatae vs Carthage. Knock your socks off.

EDIT: Got some newcomers from the TWC. Please, if you're reading this, sign up here if you haven't.

I dont have anyhting against those rules being enforced
but Broski should pay attention to the existing rules before concerning about new players adhere to additional ones. He knows what Im talking about

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orphydian

I dont have anyhting against those rules being enforced
but Broski should pay attention to the existing rules before concerning about new players adhere to additional ones. He knows what Im talking about

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I'm sorry but I asked him (and everyone willing) to contribute their suggestions. We're not talking about new rules. We're talking about legitimate concerns with the rules I have laid out for you in the site I personally fund each year. I'm not only trying to avoid strictly enforcing what we have, but I'm also trying to get some opinions (albeit short notice) of what some top issues might be of concern to us for this tournament. What Broski has described sound to me like vanilla RTW multiplayer phenomena. That, any vets here will know, is not how EB players play. We don't make silly boxes or follow an imaginary red line. So if you're new to the scene, please consider the fact that EB is not vanilla. We respect that to some extent in the way we play our MP battles. EB is a learning experience, after all.

@Agathodaimon.

Don't even get me started on that, I do not play EB online very often. I haven't memorized clearly what is factional unit or not and many times such classification can be blurred. Sure I may have broken the rules twice (the first time you didn't say anything as you won) but when you have lost then you started to care. I have only realized such rule breaking when I checked the spreadsheet and rechecked the rules after I had to leave the network.

Here's the screw ups: I memorized the Roman mercenary limit and forgot regular limit was 6 so I literally took 10 foreign (Rome is 8 but I thought chariots were native) units. That is my bad. But... There is no need to go any further when I have recognized the screw up and plus, it's a friendly game, not competitive. Next time I will read more carefully in the spreadsheet to check if I broke rules or not. There is still a margin for error as again, I am still not too familiar with EB whether it be the campaign or battles.

There is no need to point out that I screwed up, I did but that does not mean I can not make rules recommendations to prevent abuse of game mechanics to benefit the players in the tournament with more enjoyable battles.

Truth be told, I think that hoplite boxes should be banned.
I always feel that they limit the faction pool, after all , none but the most veteran dare to tackle hardcore hoplite boxes with pahlava, per se.
also, what do you mean by "elimination matches"? So if a player loses he is out of the game?
in general, I thank you for organizing this event and I will join asap, and I will bring a friend too.

Hi tishtar,

I admit, I haven't posted anything in the rules page about phalanx/pike-box formations, but I suppose it's been an unwritten rule. I would definitely let a vet second me on this before I assure you, but it's what I feel has been part of the assumption all along (if you watch previous tournament matches).

A single elimination tournament means if you lose your match, you are out of the tournament. So you might win several best-of-3 matches, then reach semifinals, and lose 2 battles to your opponent. You're out of the tournament because you have been eliminated. Double-elimination would mean all losers get to play in a losers bracket and the winner of that bracket has a chance to come back into the finals. The trouble is we don't have enough time to arrange so many matches.

V

Hi, I've signed in this tournament back on TWC.net, just letting you know here as well.

Also, with regards with pulling units through other units, like mentioned above by Broski, why is it such a big deal that they should be banned ? I'm really new to EB, but as far as I know, pulling a unit through another unit will get you a lot of casualties, so it's really a trade off between casualties and what you want to achieve.

Could someone link me to some rules used for this tournament ? Thanks!

Hi, same like Jiub I signed up at TWC.net, now signed up on this Forum like requested and looking forward to participate!! :bow:

(Never played online before)

Cheers!
Maximus

@vartan
Thank you for your explanation. what I meant was that due to the limited number of participants, that might make the event too short. but now that I think, I see that it would not be the case.
nice prizes by the the way, though it is unlikely that I win any!
Also, It would be nice to make the games scored resolution, to encourage picking non-Hellenic factions.
P.S: I am not familiar with the tournament procedure. Does registeration mean just posting here?

Quote:

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I admit, I haven't posted anything in the rules page about phalanx/pike-box formations, but I suppose it's been an unwritten rule. I would definitely let a vet second me on this before I assure you, but it's what I feel has been part of the assumption all along (if you watch previous tournament matches).

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well yes these kind of rules were left to a common sense even more basic than the usual fair play rules. But maybe Broski comes from a more grubby and rowdy online scene with the TW games and he probably know where his fears might come out especially if he intends to bring some of his fellows here. I hope they will not be that cranky how you seemed to me even a month ago when you first joined and then you suddenly give up (after bot being happy with some rules too) youll explain them that EB is a little different.


This cant be offtopic but has much to do with he rules and online etiquete even if it has turned in a personal business between me and Broski: you should not have that bad attitude when someone ask you about a potential rule breaking (whatever if it comes after a win or loss). What to mention about that low and lame threat at hamachi. In the good old days Vartan would kick you out for less... I hope youll make me change this impression


Alowing myself a joke, the most important rule for EB Online would now appear to be that people HAVE to leave the network after they are done at hamachi. It seems impossible for them to do it voluntarily and now the network will be at limit.

I did not leave because I was unhappy with rules, I stopped playing because I was spending my free time playing other games like Red Orchestra 2. The only cranky-ness is my frustration with the game mechanics which I am not used to, period. Nothing else. Is one not allowed to vent off some heat?

I asked you to cease with the questions and statements on rule breaking as it was a friendly game and that should be enough before you called me a you know what and I returned in kind. If I am kicked so shall it be, that is the decision of the people in power. If Vartan feels the need to kick me that is his choice and only his choice. I am fine if he chooses so.

Also this

"But maybe Broski comes from a more grubby and rowdy online scene with the TW games and he probably know where his fears might come out especially if he intends to bring some of his fellows here."

is a mis interpretation of the actual scene. There are many players who are friendly but there is simply much more players that there of course will be roudy people. Also the people I intend to bring here are polite unless if provoked first, they will also respond in kind if provoked or feel provoked so that is an insult to fellow TW players. We always begin our games with glhf, end it with a gg, chat a little, etc.

I ask again, please desist now; instead of carrying your frustrations here against me. (Also just for your knowledge I didn't carry out my threats haha, it was a hollow one ;P)

I have told Lino when you left that I desire to give my apologies and I hoped you have in return. Now lets get back to actually playing and enjoying. :2thumbsup:

My concern with the tournament rules is that it can allow for such actions, you could say it is cheap but it does not break the fair play rules so if I were to sit at the red line one can not disqualify me or do anything about that as it is not fair if I get punished when other players can also do the same thing. People may not do it but I believe one should keep that in mind.

Edit: Aga and I have resolved the matter.

Jiub and Maximus Rosarius, thank you for announcing your presence in this thread. As you may have inferred, I am to keep track of this tournament in this thread because I consider this the primary home of the EB community, and because this is where we have been organizing since the first relatively large tournament for EB in 2009.

I sincerely hope you (i.e., Aga/Orph & Broski) have resolved your personal matters. Just to make things clear, I (and I'm sure any moderators as well) would appreciate it if such personal issues were kept to the realm of private messages rather than functional threads such as this one. The purpose of this thread is to allow registration to the tournament as well as match reports as the tournament progresses. Please keep this in mind for the sake of all involved.

Tishtar, you mention the possibility of a score-based tournament instead of the current format. Truth be told, all of our tournaments have been score-based before. Or rather, your score was your wins minus losses. We didn't do actual scoring such as total casualties inflicted. This would obviously vary across matchups and I really do not want to consider just how we would normalize for that. I do hope all are content with the single elimination format with best-of-3 matches (sans the final match, best-of-5).

Jiub, I've listed a link to the rules page on my EB Online site. Also, I'm not sure what is precisely meant by "pulling units through other units". I imagine it means ordering your unit to move through (and behind) an enemy unit, as opposed to giving an attack order. Let me quote fair-play rule #1, a fairly old one:

Fair-play Rule #1: No running or charging through units with either infantry or cavalry.

As you can see on the details of that rule on the site, the exception is a cavalry unit running either to escape (if completely surrounded, i.e., on all sides) or to run through loose-form infantry. I guess the simplest thing I can say about how FPR1 originated is that we wanted to prevent units from coming into contact with opposing units without engaging. Obviously you can do this in the Rome: Total War engine. We are just discouraging it due to concerns of realism. Please note, the ruleset are to be taken as fundamental claims of what is real and historical. It is a balance between that and the ability to play without an overwhelming amount of rules. Believe it or not, the legacy site (previous version, coded from scratch, non-wordpress) was like a whole book of rules. It was eventually considered to be more toxic than helpful to the multiplayer scene and so myself and others began discussions that led to the pruning and condensing of the ruleset.

Please pardon the wall of text as I try and address everyone's concerns. Do not hesitate to ask any questions if clarification is needed. I understand some of you are entirely new to the scene.

V

what I meant by Scored resolution was that in a best of three match, the person who has inflicted the most casualities wins.
The ladder scores of course, will still be based on win and lose numbers.
also, it would be good if the veterans could share some tips with us newbies.

I would love to play but not sure how multiplayer will work on my computer, could someday try a round out with me?

Sent from my MI 2S using Tapatalk

Tishtar, the way we have it set up, it's simply an elimination tournament. Arranged matches where the first to get 2 victories moves on. Keeps it simple. Though I think it would be worth trying out the scored resolutions sometime. I don't plan on changing anything last minute such as the format, but it's a good idea.

Madmatg, I'll add you to the bracket for now. I hope you are able to play!

Thanks vartan, I am in China so by schedule may be a little difficult but most of my classes are over for the semester so I'll have extra time

Sent from my MI 2S using Tapatalk

Ill have only fugitive internet acces most of this month so Im afraid Ill have to withdraw from this. I hope youll have good fun and the best will win.

Sweeeeeet Sweeeeeet Sweeeeet !!! THANK GOD IM HERE ON TIME !!! and ill be playing as ptolemy (god help me i havnt played the game for about 9 months :( )

Haha I haven't played multiplayer in like 5 years :0

Sent from my MI 2S using Tapatalk

The rules say nothing of a cap on cavalry, except regarding the unit's cost. Is that correct ?
Also, what's so unbalanced in upgrading troops's armor or weapon ?

Hey just one thing ! me and tishtar (im his friend) cant start the tournement till till saturday ! is it ok ? well i have a stable connection and tishtar is on vacation till then ! so if its ok we will start our matches then !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jiub

The rules say nothing of a cap on cavalry, except regarding the unit's cost. Is that correct ?
Also, what's so unbalanced in upgrading troops's armor or weapon ?

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A long time ago in a galaxy far away the players investigated and came to the conclusion that other than a single experience boost, the blacksmith upgrades (for weapon or armor) were too high-benefit low-cost for the sake of multiplayer. All balancing revolved around redesigning the multiplayer EDU. Very good question, thank you for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sepehr Kurden Madig

Hey just one thing ! me and tishtar (im his friend) cant start the tournement till till saturday ! is it ok ? well i have a stable connection and tishtar is on vacation till then ! so if its ok we will start our matches then !

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If tishtar is unable to connect to his opponents, he may not be able to play at all. It's something that errs me quite a bit since it's not a new issue. Each year we have a handful of folk who for some reason or another cannot connect to others in the game, despite having a 'normal' Internet connection setup, with nothing that could apparently be an issue...

Also, remember, it is up to the players to arrange with their opponent in their current matchup when they will play their 3 games, before reporting the results here (with replays). I know I didn't mention this, but please, please post your replays here. We not only archive replays for posterity's sake, but just in case we need to review them.

You may notice the seeds in the tournament bracket being shuffled as new players come in. Don't mind this. After I announce the closure of registrations, the bracket will remain fixed. At that point, anyone who for whatever reason cannot play in the tournament (be it a technical issue, or real life) will simply be marked as having lost their matchup, and their opponent having moved on to the next round.