Bethlehem Christian farmer holds out against settlers and the IDF

This is a story worth putting up, mainly because those battling the army and settlers are Christians rather than Muslims. Now personally that doesn't matter to me - but to many on this board Muslim = crazy terrorist, so having a different protaganist might offer better insight:

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"They know very well that the Palestinians cannot afford to defend the land," says Amal Nassar, "so they give up hope and leave." But the family have somehow found the money and determination to keep their appeal alive.

When they were informed, after 10 years in the military courts, that their Palestinian lawyer was not eligible to contest the case in Israel's supreme court - because he carried West Bank identity papers - they found an Israeli firm willing to take it on. When they were told to provide a land survey, they hired (at a cost of $70,000) an Israeli surveyor, and sent him to consult maps and documents in the imperial archives of London and Istanbul. When they were asked to bring witnesses in support of their claim to have farmed the land for three generations, they hired a bus to take more than 30 Palestinian villagers to the military court near Ramallah. "We had to wait five hours outside the court under the sun," remembers Amal Nassar. "And then, after five hours, a soldier come out, they say, 'We don't want witnesses, go home.'

"Every time they see you are ready to meet their demands, they ask [for something] more and more difficult, [so] that you say 'I am fed up, I cannot.' Yes, this [is] always the process. We know it. It's a game to push us to leave."

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27883685

Bethlehem has the biggest Christian majority in Palestine, I believe it was roughly 25% of the population there.

One thought that a people as disliked as the Jews historically, would try to prove the world wrong.

Instead, when getting their own state, they turn it into something you have to go to WW2 references to describe.

Silly jews.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Silly jews.

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(facepalm)

I despair ...

The way to protest or criticise an apartheid state with a (arguably reasonable) persecution complex, is not to make stupid racist comments.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

(facepalm)

I despair ...

The way to protest or criticise an apartheid state with a (arguably reasonable) persecution complex, is not to make stupid racist comments.

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Yeah, the "silly jews" comment should be read with a Monty Python voice...

If you think "silly jews" is actually racist, just imagine all the other words I could have used had I been truly racist.

It's not ok to be a little bit stupid with the justification that you could have been really stupid.

I think some Evangelical Christians are starting to realise that there is a conflict of principles between their support for Israel out of millenarian interpretations of the Bible on the one hand, and the treatment of Palestinian Christians by the Israeli state on the other.

I know various charitable projects through my local church that work in Israel/Palestine, and they have often voiced their frustration with the Israeli authorities, and the injustices they have witnessed against the Palestinian people.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

One thought that a people as disliked as the Jews historically, would try to prove the world wrong.

Instead, when getting their own state, they turn it into something you have to go to WW2 references to describe.

Silly jews.

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Israelis. Not all Israelis are Jewish, nor are all Jews comfortable with the policies and actions of Israel. It is the conflation of the terms that is getting you into murky waters, you are perfectly free to chide them for historical irony.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Israelis. Not all Israelis are Jewish, nor are all Jews comfortable with the policies and actions of Israel. It is the conflation of the terms that is getting you into murky waters, you are perfectly free to chide them for historical irony.

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Potato / potato...

Jews per defenition got their own state. This is what they did with it.

I am not saying all Israelis are jews, nor am I saying all jews are israelis.

I am saying that when the jews got their own nation it ended up like this. Hope I've been more clear now.

And yes, historical irony is to put it very mildly...

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Potato / potato...

Jews per defenition got their own state. This is what they did with it.

I am not saying all Israelis are jews, nor am I saying all jews are israelis.

I am saying that when the jews got their own nation it ended up like this. Hope I've been more clear now.

And yes, historical irony is to put it very mildly...

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Oh dear. Just stop now. You've dug to the bottom. Climb out of the hole and take a break.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Oh dear. Just stop now. You've dug to the bottom. Climb out of the hole and take a break.

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Sorry mate, I don't see any fallacy in what I posted. If I reached some bottom, it should be easy for you to explain why. So why don't you spend your energy on doing that, instead of whining?

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Oh dear. Just stop now. You've dug to the bottom. Climb out of the hole and take a break.

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I believe Kad is making a distinction between the Jews and "The Jews".

After WWII we gave "The Jews" their own state, one founded on a very narrow ethnic and religious perspective, and what we got was a state where Jews from Sub-Saharan Africa are sterilised without their knowledge under cover of medical treatment.

Seamus said "Not all Israelis are Jewish" but, in fact for "Jewish" Israelis the two are synonymous - that is why they have the "Right of Return" for all Jews but otherwise strictly restrict immigration by Christians or Muslims from the same demographics. There are lots of Jews in Israel who are unhappy with what their government does but the fact is that "the Jews" are still the most powerful lobby in the country.

It's like I said, it's time to get over the Holocaust and accept that Jews are just like everyone else.

I would support Israel fully had they built a blossoming democracy in the middle east...

As is, I find their political decisions absolutely vile.

Were they the ones being attacked, I would totally support them. Problem is, that Israel is the aggressor.

And honestly speaking, it's not like we need MORE warmongering cultures around that area.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I would support Israel fully had they built a blossoming democracy in the middle east...

As is, I find their political decisions absolutely vile.

Were they the ones being attacked, I would totally support them. Problem is, that Israel is the aggressor.

And honestly speaking, it's not like we need MORE warmongering cultures around that area.

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On point, no poorly labeled blandishment, noteworthy point of criticism, dash of humor to close. Nice post.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

It's like I said, it's time to get over the Holocaust and accept that Jews are just like everyone else.

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How can they, when people like Kad believe they secretly control the world?

As for the sterilization, can any one of us claim to live in a country who has not had a sterilization program in the last 50 years?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

How can they, when people like Kad believe they secretly control the world?

As for the sterilization, can any one of us claim to live in a country who has not had a sterilization program in the last 50 years?

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Errrrrr.....

I don't think we had one.

In any case, this is more like last year.

Kad doesn't believe Jews control the world, he just recognises that "the Jews" are a powerful political lobby in countries like America, as are "Evangelical Christians."

I know plenty of Jews who don't want to rule the world, and plenty of Evangelical Christians who want to teach evolution.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

On point, no poorly labeled blandishment, noteworthy point of criticism, dash of humor to close. Nice post.

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Cheers, I was really hoping you would give me feedback. I need it to think right :rolleyes:




Oh, and PVC is right as usual...

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Cheers, I was really hoping you would give me feedback. I need it to think right :rolleyes:

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I have no desire to control your thoughts. However, since I criticize you frequently, it is only "fitten" that I compliment when you do it well. Plus, I am gearing up to start teaching a summer term course on Monday....have to sharpen the tool set.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I have no desire to control your thoughts. However, since I criticize you frequently, it is only "fitten" that I compliment when you do it well. Plus, I am gearing up to start teaching a summer term course on Monday....have to sharpen the tool set.

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May I then return the favour and criticise you for being a condescending ******, then?

Criticism is grand, grading isn't.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Oh, and PVC is right as usual...

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Got your back, bro.

:sweetheart:

If you ever go near my sister, I'll kill you.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Got your back, bro.

:sweetheart:

If you ever go near my sister, I'll kill you.

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I think that kind of summed up male friendship...

Probably, but I only did it for affect.

My sister can take care of herself.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Errrrrr.....

I don't think we had one.

In any case, this is more like last year.

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Sorry; you routinely sterilized dumb people(read: people with learning disabilities) back in the 60's.

You had no ethnic target, so I'll give you a slight thumbs up for that.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Kad doesn't believe Jews control the world, he just recognises that "the Jews" are a powerful political lobby in countries like America, as are "Evangelical Christians."

I know plenty of Jews who don't want to rule the world, and plenty of Evangelical Christians who want to teach evolution.

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Kad has posted his belief that 'all media is controlled by jews' - if that's not the calling card of the jewish NWO, I don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Kad has posted his belief that 'all media is controlled by jews' - if that's not the calling card of the jewish NWO, I don't know what is.

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I generally try to refrain from answering your posts these days, but when you target me specifically I guess I don't have much of a choice.

My answer would be: That's just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I generally try to refrain from answering you posts these days, but when you target me specifically I guess I don't have much of a choice.

My answer would be: That's just stupid.

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You have not written posts about Bonnier and Schibsted supposedly being under jewish control..?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

You have not written posts about Bonnier and Schibsted supposedly being under jewish control..?

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I have written about jewish people and descendants controlling media outlets in Sweden, yes.

That is far from your initial claim of "Kad has posted his belief that 'all media is controlled by jews"

I won't answer you any further, as I quite frankly am fed up with you. But go ahead and rant all you want, troll.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Sorry; you routinely sterilized dumb people(read: people with learning disabilities) back in the 60's.

You had no ethnic target, so I'll give you a slight thumbs up for that.

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Ah, yes, you are correct.

However - we're not doing it now and none of the people in charge then are in charge now (except the Queen, and one doubts she was briefed).

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Kad has posted his belief that 'all media is controlled by jews' - if that's not the calling card of the jewish NWO, I don't know what is.

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I recall those posts.

There are a large number of Jews in Hollywood too working as producers - if Jewish families have control of Swedish media outlets, then it's entirely possible there's a bias there.

Nobody ever suggests that Rupert Murdoch isn't horribly biased in favour of his objectives.

Again - there's a difference here between "The Jews" and Jews generally.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I have written about jewish people and descendants controlling media outlets in Sweden, yes.

That is far from your initial claim of "Kad has posted his belief that 'all media is controlled by jews"

I won't answer you any further, as I quite frankly am fed up with you. But go ahead and rant all you want, troll.

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I lol'ed.

Anyway, thank you for confirming my initial posts - 'jews control the media' is indeed the calling card of anti-semite NWO-bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

There are a large number of Jews in Hollywood too working as producers - if Jewish families have control of Swedish media outlets, then it's entirely possible there's a bias there.

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Thing is that you're going in to conspiracy territory with that. The Bonnier family (Jewish origin) is split into Jewish and Christian branches with the Christian branch (priest included) are in charge of the media empire. That counts as a maybe, since the branches do have good relations.

Schibsted has no Jewish connections.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Nobody ever suggests that Rupert Murdoch isn't horribly biased in favour of his objectives.

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Indeed.

You say "Rupert Murdoch is horribly biased". You don't say "the Australians are horribly biased".