Camps (Nomadism settlement type)

I don't really understand how this works. I'm playing as the Lusitanian and conquered Brakara and the province to the east of it, both are these apparent nomad settlements, substitutes for MTW2's Castles. Is there a way to convert these to cities? Do I have to do anything specific? Do I eventually get such an option? They're incredibly useless otherwise, it seems, there's no recruitment or building options, no government options. I don't even get the new walls when they go past the Households threshold to improve the settlement.

Cheers!

Normally one should be able to recruit and build there. Are you sure there is no option to build a government there?

Normally one should upgrade the nomad farms building tree to unlock settlement conversion.

Same issue with Baktria. I own Oyrta for more than 150 turns by now. It has all buildings built (especially the farms which give a culture conversion bonus according to the building description). Population is ~7000 iic.
I was able to build an allied government so there is at least the possibility to recruit/replace the garrison (parts of it, that is - only horse/foot archers available which are not enough to repel the blasted Saka ~;), so I constantly am moving phalangitai and Thureophoroi from Baktra to Oyrta).

When I conquered the province (~turn 50 iirc), it had 6% hellenistic polities. It still has exactly that value. The only religion rising is the nomad one, which is odd, because the EDB seems to state that the bonus is given to the culture religion) of the faction owning the settlement. ~:confused:

And therefore, despite being a proper kingdom now and slowly developing most other provinces that were eastern tribal backwater holes before :laugh4:, Oyrta is impossible to develop.

Over at the TWC there was a post, stating that you just need to adjust the EDB to give all factions the possibility to convert castles to urban settlements, but replacing the list in that file with "{ all, }" or adding " f_baktria, " indeed crashes the game for me. :inquisitive:

EDIT:
Stupid me. If editing the EDB, delete map.rwm. Can't remember how often I did this in EB I or II by now. This time I totally forgot it. As soon as I deleted the map.rwm, the fix mentioned in the post above worked fine. No crashes anymore. :rolleyes:

Ah yes not all factions currently have the ability to do this. That was a deliberate decision, though that might be changed.

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Originally Posted by Moros

Normally one should be able to recruit and build there. Are you sure there is no option to build a government there?

Normally one should upgrade the nomad farms building tree to unlock settlement conversion.

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There is just the option to build the allied government type, which doesn't really make sense, eh? And I can't improve farms or crap at all.

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Originally Posted by Harkon

There is just the option to build the allied government type, which doesn't really make sense, eh? And I can't improve farms or crap at all.

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We are working on a mechanism to make "most" camps upgradeable by ALL factions. Exceptions are those located in regions that never contained cities during the EB2 time frame (and in which city development really wouldn't have been possible in this era for a wide range of reasons).

But Brakara and the province to the East of it in the Iberian Peninsula (both camps) should be possible right now, no?

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Originally Posted by Kull

Exceptions are those located in regions that never contained cities during the EB2 time frame (and in which city development really wouldn't have been possible in this era for a wide range of reasons).

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Looking forward to that change - although this probably means that Oyrta/Sulek and Tuat/Kirtan are off the table, right?

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Originally Posted by Harkon

But Brakara and the province to the East of it in the Iberian Peninsula (both camps) should be possible right now, no?

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They should be, but they aren't. They will be after the patch.

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Originally Posted by Shadowwalker

Looking forward to that change - although this probably means that Oyrta/Sulek and Tuat/Kirtan are off the table, right?

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Oyrta/Sulek are right on a major trade route from China and theoretically that could provide enough income to turn those locations into cities - which is a key factor. So, yes they will ultimately have the ability. By contrast, Tuat/Kirtan are in the middle of nowhere and whatever trade came through from the south, it would never have been enough for them to become major cities in this time period.

Some people might be surprised, but the same rule applies to those regions in Germany/Baltics which are far from the historical Roman Empire border and didn't develop cities until the mid-middle ages or even later. Developing a high population industrial setup in this area during our time frame is every bit as impossible as building a massive city in the middle of the steppe. If anything we erred on the side of "maybe, perhaps, if all went perfectly" in a few locations. Frankly it just gives a much more historic feel to the game when you don't have huge cities popping up in ludicrous locations.

Thanks for that, Kull.

Speaking of city development/growth: I don't mind some (most) of the settlements on the map being unable to reach "huge" size. Infact I still consider it too easy to turn cities into huge metropolises. Encountered that in my previous Baktria campaign, where half of my settlements were huge (or close to and still growing) by 210 BC.
I acknowledge (and appreciate) the fact that the EB team has taken steps to restrict/slow down growth already - but I wouldn't mind it to become even more difficult.

Although this could be a fine idea for a submod, too. After all, the EB I City Mod by MAA was "just" a submod as well. :yes:

Am I correct in thinking the camps don't get to build roads?

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Originally Posted by Snite

Am I correct in thinking the camps don't get to build roads?

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Correct.

I play as the Saka Rauka and wonder if it is possible to convert cities/permanent settlement to nomad camps?

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Originally Posted by Sceadugenga

I play as the Saka Rauka and wonder if it is possible to convert cities/permanent settlement to nomad camps?

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From a brief look at the EDB it seems impossible (at least at the moment - I don't know if the team has plans to implement such a mechanism). There's no permanent settlement -> camp transition building.

Would be nice if there was. For a few at least, like those camps in northern Iberia. If you had the final camp level and a number of households you would be able to turn it into the lowest city level.

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Originally Posted by Sceadugenga

I play as the Saka Rauka and wonder if it is possible to convert cities/permanent settlement to nomad camps?

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No, the conversion is a one-way process, and always (where it is allowed) from camp to settled.

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Originally Posted by Kull

Frankly it just gives a much more historic feel to the game when you don't have huge cities popping up in ludicrous locations.

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Thank you very much for that! I remember a Seleucid campaign in EB1, where I conquered Parthia and the Saka Rauka, and in the long run ended up with Huge Cities up there. Felt ludicrous, indeed ;)