Valour gained in battle?

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11-18-2002, 04:33
hoom

Right, I've searched and not found anything.

I only recently got around to looking at various files and eventually found my way to the battle stats folder (which was probably my intention of looking around) where I discovered something.

I noticed for example that:
In one unit from one particular battle, I had two soldiers that started from 0 valour.
One got 15 kills and went up to 1 valour.
The other got 4 kills and went up to 2 valour.

My understanding had been that valour increases were based on number of kills but that is obviously not so.
Unless say 12 of those kills by the first soldier were captures and captures don't count towards valour???

I understand that a units' valour is the rounded average of the constituent soldiers' valour, but I had noticed that even back in Shogun, often enough, a green unit getting lots of kills with few losses may not increase in valour as much as another green unit that got fewer kills and losses.

I get the feeling that the quality of the enemy killed may have something to do with this?

Another issue (I think)
Generally I have found it is very hard to actually increase the valour of units (other than the core of cavalry) by much other than to 1-2 or very occasionally 3 starting from 0.
Most of the valour my units gets are from generals.
Which leads me to ponder, if a unit gets bumped up from 0 valour to 3 valour due to the general, does that mean that unit needs to get the same number of kills as a proper 3 valour unit with a 0 star general would to go up?
11-18-2002, 04:40
Hosakawa Tito

I'm not sure how it works myself. Maybe how the kills were attained is taken into consideration. Taking on multiple units head on and in an exposed position, should receive more valor than chasing down routing units, in my opinion.
11-18-2002, 04:58
ulyanov

Hosakawa Tito That's how it seems to work for me.

I try not to waste my Generals by keeping them back and getting a bad V&V (Coward for not fighting? I forget), so I use them to go the soft troops and routers. The other units of the same breed do the hard work, so they do increase in Valour faster than the Generals.

I've had Generals take 200+ Routers and peasants with 1 or 2 losses, and gain no valour, while the other guys have taken 40 or 50, with 75% losess and gained 3 of 4...

BTW: Sometimes people use 'Honour' - is this the S:TW term for valour? never had S:TW
11-18-2002, 05:04
Hosakawa Tito

Yes ulyanov, in STW it was honor, in MTW it is called valor.
Sometimes we slip back into STW terms, sorry if we confused you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
11-18-2002, 05:21
hoom

You can go up 3 or 4 valour easily enough by losing members of the unit, even without making any kills, as long as the guys dying are the low valour ones.

I would really like some official statement on how this stuff is worked out.
I had kinda hoped that given the general confusion over how Honour worked in Shogun, they might have explained how Valour works in Medieval in the manual...
11-18-2002, 11:28
LovelyHaji

hmm. There's quite a lot of things i'd like to have seen in the manual. instructions on how to play the game would have been a nice start Anyone else nearly go mad trying to work out how to strip a general of his title?
11-18-2002, 12:26
The Green Knight

I think you just drop an emissary on him.
11-18-2002, 12:31
PanthaPower

Hmmm, I've been wondering about this too. But I found out that killing the enemy King didn't bring me even 1 valour to a 0 valur unit. So many of my units died in their effort to slay the enemy king only to find out it counted as 1 kill and got no added valour.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif
11-18-2002, 23:19
hoom

I'm guessing that the individual soldier that killed the king got a 1 or 2 valour increase, but only that soldier.
11-19-2002, 05:44
solypsist

when taking on enemy kings and generals, it's best to try and get your own general or heir unit into combat to alleviate the pressure on your "normal" unit. Generals, Heirs, Kings, etc. have, basically, Hit Points. A normal soldier has only 1; G,H,K have several. By moving your guy into combat, they can sustain a bit of damage that would otherwise go to killing a normal-soldier, while the enemy continues to deplete his own Health against your 100-man unit and your G.H, or K.
11-19-2002, 16:12
Kraxis

Also remember that a king is worth about 50 men in value when counting Valour, heirs and generals are worth a lot too but I don't know how much.

So it is not unlikely that some Elite units are worth perhaps 3 normal soldiers each.

Btw, I have heard that captures count a quarter of kills.
11-20-2002, 02:04
Satyr

I have this great general. He is valor 11 and is a 'great warrior' so he gets +5 health. This unit and this man are unstoppable.
11-20-2002, 02:24
Hosakawa Tito

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (LovelyHaji @ Nov. 18 2002,04:28)]hmm. There's quite a lot of things i'd like to have seen in the manual. instructions on how to play the game would have been a nice start Anyone else nearly go mad trying to work out how to strip a general of his title?

To strip a general of his title/govenorship you need to drop a spy on him. A popup window will ask if you want to bring this man to trial for treason. Click yes and next turn you'll get the verdict. The higher valor your spy is, the more likely he will prevail. If the general goes free, watch him closely because his loyalty will go down.
11-22-2002, 16:15
hoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Also remember that a king is worth about 50 men in value when counting Valour, heirs and generals are worth a lot too but I don't know how much.

So it is not unlikely that some Elite units are worth perhaps 3 normal soldiers each.

Btw, I have heard that captures count a quarter of kills

Thanks, I think that explains a fair bit.
I wish someone would make some kind of official explanation for this rather important aspect...
11-22-2002, 16:26
Kraxis

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (arrrse @ Nov. 22 2002,09:15)]Thanks, I think that explains a fair bit.
I wish someone would make some kind of official explanation for this rather important aspect...

You are welcome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

But I got that 50 man thing from longjohn or Gil, so it is true enough.
If you look at the unit that kills the king mostly it will jump one Valour. That is because the man that killed him suddenly has several Valours more than the other guys around him.
11-22-2002, 17:05
Spetulhu

The system does seem to count how you do it, and to who. Those pesky Sicilians wanted Sicily back from me and attacked, so of course I set up for defense. Saracens and Muwahid in front, archers behind them. I collected some 290+ kills through missile fire before the enemy broke and ran away. One unit of archers had 82 kills, another 29 and the rest in between. None of them got any Valour for this, all stayed at the zero they had. They did slaughter mostly spearmen and militia units but there were a few knights left on the field too.
11-22-2002, 17:10
deutschlanduberalles

Captures definitely count towards calculating valor--and I don't think it's only a quarter of kills either. In my armies, CMAA form the backbone of my infantry and I generally use royal knights / mounted sergeants SOLELY to destroy fleeing units. In a typical clash that consists of, say, less than 2,000 soldiers altogether, my CMAA units typically get 40-70 kills and gain 1-2 valor, while my cavalry units will chase down around 40-50 men each (I really need to break myself of the neurotic habit of armoring all my troops to the hilt, my cavalry units tire faster than....something that tires really fast...at least they don't die often http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif ) and gain 2-3 valor. This is from 0-1 starting valor btw...I have very few units that survive against the constant battering of the Elmohead hordes long enough to break 5 valor. Captures may have a decreased effect on valor gain but it is very noticeable.
11-22-2002, 21:19
Al Qasim Hussein

I don't understand why I keep seeing posts about how to strip generals of titles and then see people responding w/ 'drop a spy on them.' No offense, but the easiest, cheapest, and earliest method is to drop an emissary on 'em. No trial, no 'chance of success', nothing. He just loses his titles, and that's that. Furthermore, the game SAYS he loses loyalty as a result but I have yet to see it happen (even post-patch).
11-22-2002, 21:40
Azrael

Hey Guys,

I could be seeing things, but I've noticed Units gaining valour in battle by what you ask them to do.

I've found Units that charge an enemy, especially an enemy charging them, seem to receive valour increases after the battle (note this means successful charges, i.e. you get close and when your close enough, charge. Charge too early and the charge "runs out of steam").

This works well as a boost for spearmen charging cavalry and cavalry charging almost anyone.

Like I said above. This is what seems to be happening. Maybe my charging Units are doing the most killing and thats why the get the bonus.

Worth a closer look though.

Azrael