Ummm.... rebellions a bit much?

Playing as English, I had just killed Almohads and Aragonese, built up an invasion force and launched a crusade against the Egyptians. I didn't even use my king-- all I did was move a few armies from Morocco two lands east. What happens back home? Rebellions in SEVEN provinces simultaneously, and the Danes reappear to boot. Umm, this seems idiotic to me. Maybe if I had just been excommunicated or my king died, but I did NOTHING new. Grrr... the strategic game takes way too much time-- it should be more oriented around battle than moving pieces around on a board.

Just my $0.02.

wait until you get a nice little popup message that says "You have conquered 60% of Europe. Do you wish to claim this lesser victory?" click no, wait about 3 or 4 turns, then come back here and talk http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Eddie the Longshanks (edited 11-04-2002).]

Hmmm.... I don't understand what you guys keep going on about!?
I haven't had a problem with rebellions ...and it aint because I'm some strategic guru.
Just try to think laterally and prevent circumstances that would cause a revolt in real life.
I think the triggers for rebellion are quite realistic and IMHO it adds much to the gameplay.

My $0.01 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Cheers

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PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO

I do think the rebellions are too powerfull. I am still trying to figure out how the scotts got Itallian Infantry.

yup, im still wondering why corsica got five units of vikings Rebellions are destroying the whole world with thousands of men in each rebellion

I have been experimenting with the rebellion numbers in crusunitbuild file. I believe any unit which is a faction specific unit not restricted to a region can show up in any rebellion. The Italian Light Infantry is one such unit.

I restricted the build location of that particular unit to Italian regions only such as Milan, Genoa, etc and still built only by Italians. They have now disappeared from rebellions in Scotland. And hopefully from any other locations outside of Italy. I think that solved the problem.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Brown Wolf @ Nov. 08 2002,21:29)]I do think the rebellions are too powerfull. I am still trying to figure out how the scotts got Itallian Infantry.

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Could be they were mercenaries.
You've got to use your imagination. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif

I've had some really large rebellions. In one province, hmm...forget which one, but its right under Aragon, and to the right of Castille I think....anyways I had a 4000 man rebellion. Some were archers, over a thousand were Hobilars, and then mostly peasants. I had just about 460 men in the province, and the situation could have gotten really bad because of all of those hobilars, which were all fielded first. Luckily, I got a bridge map, so my 2 units of spearmen did the job. Too bad they were full in the beginning, and were reduced to 20 men total between the two of them at the end. My general is now a 'Butcher' http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

and the cool thing about being a butcher is that u dont get a morale penalty like the lesser prisnor killer vices.

all u get is tons of dread. i guees the oceans of blood convenced your men that if they dont want to contribute to the ocean they better support u fully. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif

but i do agree that post patch the rebellion sizes are too big. i like the cant produce rebellions with unbuildable units for that faction addition but the balancing element eg much larger rebellions is quite over the top.

i think rebellions should have a one stack maximum and typically be between 400 to 700 troops. (the lower the loyalty the closer toward 700 u go. if the loyalty is below 10% then u risk the 1000 -1200 man rebellion

Mabye they were just on vacation. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

i agree that rebellions are much too large. as for the rebels being mercs., i would think that there would have to be an inn in the province in order for the rebels to hire them. i like the idea that they be limitd to around 700 men, tho i wouldn't even mind a full army of good troops as the rebels. cause i hate chaseing 3000 peasants around the battle field, and captureing better units gets you more money.

Agreed.
Rebellions are way out of hand.

In my present campaign I'm rolling up the Byzantine.
Every time I take Constantinople or Trebizond I get a loyalist rebellion. The one in Const. is always 2 stacks; fitted in silver armour; with a rounded mix of chivalric knights and varangian guards. The Trebizond one has been easier to deal with so far; same unit mix...no silver armour http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

I thought I was being smart.
I flooded both provinces with strat. agents prior to invasion and left them there after each victory....makes no difference.

Between my units and the Golden Horde, we have sliced Byz into almost nothing. They don't possess the capability to produce anything like what is appearing.

I may return if I manage to put down the fourth spontaneous rebellion and relate how it all went http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (MizuKokami @ Nov. 09 2002,15:59)]i wouldn't even mind a full army of good troops as the rebels. cause i hate chaseing 3000 peasants around the battle field, and captureing better units gets you more money.

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I have a question about this...when you capture people and it says something about "Cost of captured lands" or whatever it says...do you actually get that money? If so, this might be a good way to make money. Let rebellions happen, crush them, get money. As long as you don't lose too many men, it'd be a good way to increase your valour as well, and get more wins under your generals belt.

yes, that's what i did prepatch. an army of a thousand peasants is only worth about 500. but an army of better troops can net you close to a 1000. mind you, it's no where as good as ransoming back faction armies, but it was better then nothing. now with the new rebelions...dam. in early game, your heirs , a handful of spearmen, and a couple of archer units (if you're lucky), can't beat 3000 peasants mixed in with 300 fanatics, 300 militia sargeants, and 300 archers, the standard rebellion in the pagan lands.

too large?
i just had a rebellion on malta,
2500 rebels, H5 general, mixed peasants, spearmen, militia units and archers,

i had 3 archers, 2 feudal foot knights and 4 militia,
no general, all honour 1 troops. (440 men)

I held, sat on a hill, and let them come to me,
let my archers fire till the enemy are almost on them, then moved my archers behind my front, attacked allong the line with my foot, and swung my cavalry around either end to roll them up,
broke the first wave, reformed my defences, let them come again, easier to break the second time, because half of them are in bad shape.
Let the AI bring on reinforcements while my guys rest, same tactic, except this time i'm almost out of arrows, let my militia engage h2h, swing the cav around flanks, charge in with my archers,
and the rebels break again..repeat till all rebels have routed.

Not too big in my opinion,
i always have good quality troops and a sound patient plan of defence.

Yeah I lie the big rebelions or Pesants and spearmen. Seams alot more realalistic to me. In England I keep defeting armies with 4 to 1 odds in thier favor. I have to ambush and do this and that. Its great fun. My problem is in each of Scottland'd rebellions they have 4 or 5 units of my Italian Infantry. Also I cant keep Russia for all of the urber rebellions there. I take a province, next year loyalist uprising of several hundred really good units. My Italain Legions assigned to the Russian conquest are all shredded up now, divided and gutted for mthe constand rebellions. Its kinda fun though, add a new dimension...I guess I should have taken the 60% thing... Lol

So many peasents... you can just bring in some heavy knights on horse and charge straight in. Then you get total slaughter. Large armys dont mean much when the units are so poor and liable to flee.

Just make sure you have a lot of horse, or else you'll be spending all day fighting rebels.

I got a ortodox rebellion in cyprus although it said that it was a catholtic rebellion but the province is orthodox. Maybe a bug? Anyway there were 3 units of boyars(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif and some spearmans and some peasants. It sounds litte strange that you can get boyars units from russia all away to cyprus in a year even though they are mercancry. This new function sucks I think.

heh, in a currently empty province that was just recently looted and taken over... I got a loyalist rebellion with varangian guard, and a fair bit of byzantine infantry. Makes a change for a rebellion to work in my favour..

It is possible to get loadsamoney from a revolt without firing a shot.
I had a 2300 man revolt in Volhynia - peasants and fanatics. My 160 man army watched as they advanced then stood around the pond until the timer ran out. (Had this a few times before, rather like the Owari bug in STW). Afterwards the entire revolt was listed as captured, including 5 nobles, and I pocketed two or three thousand florins ransom money.
Apparently it's not only the number of prisoners on the counter that can be ransomed.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]i had 3 archers, 2 feudal foot knights and 4 militia,
no general, all honour 1 troops. (440 men)

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which of these units were the cav you used to flank?
at any rate, i didn't say i couldn't beat the rebellions, just said they were a pain, and more then they should be.

I like the new rebellions. They're a challange now. Before the patch you didn't need to worry about them because if the appeared you could quickly gather a few armies and put them down before they did any real damage. Now... now you've got to try and stop the BEFORE they happen. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Much better


Magnum

and further, i start on early. the rebels have crossbows and lithuanian cav, both of which are not available until high period. so my opinion is rebels need a cleaning up.

I agree with everyone that says the rebellions are too large. The rebellions make if very very hard to pay the Danish if every time a province rebels it takes you years and thousands of florins to take it back. (and on a unrelated note, how do you get that description, like man at arms, to appear under your handle? I want to be a Baron http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif )

hmmm. i don't know how i got it.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Xer0 @ Nov. 10 2002,05:03)]It sounds litte strange that you can get boyars units from russia all away to cyprus in a year even though they are mercancry.

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Boyars are a royal unit, and cannot become mercenaries, afaik.

Yeah these rebellions are fun, but they are a bit too large, low valor or no.
The larger they are = the more expensive they are to bribe

I came to the same conclusion as Barocca regarding rebellions with foreign units (Scotland with Italian infantry) the rebels are hiring mercenaries to help win their struggle against a foreign aggressor. Not mentioned in any of the manuals.....................but think about it..........what would you do..........God I love this game something new everyday

I was thinking today (Dangerous I know) and this came to mind. Historicly Scottland was a real pain in the but for the English and where tough to conqure. Perhaps the scotts keep getting Italian Inf in an effort to refelect that.

Could just be merc though but I had Scottland for nearly 200 years before the first revolt and never did my Inn there pick up Itlalians.

I do like the bigger rebelions though, makes for awsome outnumbered battles.

I love this game

I like the rebellions to be tough. It forces you to pay attention to each of your provinces and makes it more difficult to just steamroll the AI. Otherwise, it's just a matter of achieving a critical mass of provinces and income and then just out-producing everyone else. At least with rebellions, you have watch your back a bit.

The rebellions also make the game more historical. Virtually every ruler during this period spent at least as much time fighting within his own borders as he did outside. England, for example, saw rebellions of various kinds in England or its French possessions in 1066-70, 1152-54, 1173-74, 1194, 1215-17, 1264-65 and 1452-87, not to mention the numerous local uprisings during the Hundred Years' War.

The exotic units that show up in rebellions don't bother me that much. I rationalize them as being mercenaries -- exactly the sorts of guys who would turn up in a rebellion. Plus, after I've spent a few decades fighting Western European armies, the appearance of the odd mercenary horse archer only adds a bit of variety.