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Hello all:)
A friend of mine sent me a replay of a recent battle we had with 6 other players. The battle was interesting because of the shear number of mistakes made on all sides.
Towards the end 24 of my Knights charged 15 handgunners and engaged them in close combat.
The knights lost. The incident is clearly shown in the replay towards the end. Im my mind the handgunners should have completely routed when my knights hit them. Yet they lost 6 men whilst I lost most of my knights. The small group that was left routed.
The impact of the knights alone should have wiped out most of them in the first second of the engagement but that didnt happen.
I find this odd, my friend refers to a handgun cheat that occures when you set the valour of hand gunners to 4. I must ask, how many people give handgunners a valour of 4 usually ?
Its not hard to miss a person who uses handgunners this way. The outcome of the battle stands out as extremely odd. Anybody paying attension will be asking questions on how it was posible for handgunners to win
Acording to the MTW Strategy guide my Teutonic knights should totally out class Handgunners in ever area. The charge alone should have devistated them.
I have the play with the name of the person using the hand gunners this way. I'll be watching for it in the future now and raising this issue when ever I see it in multiplayer.
I do not think I'll be playing against the guy again either on my own server or on anybody elses if this is indeed a cheat.
Giskard
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I dont think its a cheat. Just that some people have noticed a half decent set of stats for the handgunners and used it to their advantage. Because they come under missiles unit they can have upgrades at cheaper prices so at valour 4 they probably have a decent hand to hand stat too. Not a cheat but maybe a flaw in the patch.
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A Exploit then.
It does seem odd to see Handgunners chew through everything so easily.
Giskard
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not a flaw at all...
a handgunner has abvout 20lbs of "death stick" which has horrible range. these men cannot be peasents cause peasents could not have afforded the death stick in the first place. these men would not come armmed with only their deathstick, but also carrying some sort of melee weapon. if the nation which they are from is providing the deathsticks then that nation would only give it to its better men. finally, men carrying deathsticks into combat would be expected to have some ammount of nuts, and in having these nuts they should be able to perform in melee.
now, having a cheaper cost to upgrade may be a mistake, but handgunners being as good as they are is not.
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u lost to handgunners and cant belive so it must be a cheat tut tut tut.
ur knights must have been exhausted had enemy units behind them (but not in contact) and ur knights must have been under fire.
handgunners are good in combat belive it or not and just cos u lost against a better player doesnt make him a cheat.
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Hi
As a player in that battle, I saw what happend. I was routed and observed the fiel of battle. And then I noticed, that 20 odd handgunner marching around. Then I saw some templar knights charging them gunners. And I saw they were losing and told it to giskard. And he could not believe what we saw. Heavy duty knights getting their ass kicked.
And they were not under fire, and I do not think there were anything behind them. Though the replay can show that.
I agree, that this exploitation is disgusting, and I find it not very honourable. And heck if "everybody" does it, I wont
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what valour were the Teutonic Knights?
many people take knights at valour 0 or 1 relying on their inherent morale of 8 to carry the day,
if the handgunners were V4 then they had stats of
Mellee 5 Defence 7 Armour 4 Morale 12
aganist Valour 0 Teutonic's
Mellee 5 Defence 5 Armour 7 Morale 8
an even contest IMHO
aganist Valour 1 Teutonic's
Mellee 6 Defence 6 Armour 7 Morale 10
is still going to be an even contest,
aganist Valour 2 Teutonic's
Mellee 7 Defence 7 Armour 7 Morale 12
now this last contest would be decided on fatigue level,
an exhausted Teutonic against a quite fresh, or tired HG will still find this tough
IMHO
barocca
EDIT
By The Way i know in shogun there was a penalty applied if you faced units of higher valour and/or morale, but i cannot remember the specifics, and i do NOT know if this was carried over into MTW...
(i think i got the numbers correct - finally)
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ALSO
if the knights were exahausted they may NOT have got a charge bonus, so initial impact may have been minimal...
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The Knights had a Valor of 2 and an armour of 1.
I setup all my primary assault troops with those values in that battle, some had a weapon value of 1 too but that was just to use up the extra points. I think i gave that to my archers though, being cheap and all that.
All the rest where 1 valour.
Oh nearly forgot:)
Hello barocca, hope your xmas was good ?
Giskard
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very good,
santa bought me a wireless setup that doesn't like MTW,
but thats an apothecary story...
:D
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Always hated batteries. I never remember to keep a good supply in the house you see lol.
Giskard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
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right,
seen your replay
the knights started as valour zero,
i am uncertain if valour gained in battle has any effect on the units combat ability or not,
next, there was a fatigue difference between your knights (very tired) and the handgunners (quite tired),
next you lost a man to fire from the handgunners in charge, that caused a morale drop which may have had an impact of fighting ability,
the charge cost you both one man each - the HG looked to be in hold formation, which may be the cause for the low casualties from the charge, plus your knights were very tired and may not have reached charge speed, and thus may not have got the bouns,
your knights spent several "rounds" afraid of guns, thus they had low morale for those rounds,
next you lost half a dozen simultaneoulsly again causing a morale problem,
the "brawl" went man for man for a while, but then 5 gunners clumped together and cut down every knight who came at them,
the gunners may also have had a weapon upgrade or two,
the owner was quite willing to commit them h2h even in the early stages of the battle, makes me think they were a bit beefier than you can see from the replay.
BUT (one nice thing)
when your knights routed they ran down three gunners as they fled and lost none themselves in fleeing...
i think fatigue, afraid of guns and maybe a weapon upgrade or two for the gunners made the difference,
also the clump of them off to one side, being attacked by one knight at a time and cutting them all down would not have helped at all...
