Flat Earthers

Messing around on youtube, looking at some popular science videos, I've been recommended quite a number of videos that "prove" Earth is flat.

So, I've done a bit of research (as you do) and found out that there are probably tens of thousand of people who believe Earth is flat. Not illiterate people, but people who spent at least some time in school. And it's not even "the Bible tells us so" (although I assume that's the driving force)! There's a whole pseudo science about it. Internet sites, blogs, forums, youtube videos,

As a human race, do we really deserve to live or should someone put us all out of our misery?

All creationists due to their belief that the bible is infallible and must be taken literally must be flat earthers...or else they are just hypocrits

I've heard about them before, but I always assumed that it was some sort of parody like the Pastafarian church.

I'm not sure where the bible says anything about the curvature of earth, but that aside, it is obviously a valid opinion and might be true as long as we can't prove it wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. And "photos from space" don't count, the people who made them could be biased! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Husar

I'm not sure where the bible says anything about the curvature of earth, but that aside, it is obviously a valid opinion and might be true as long as we can't prove it wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. And "photos from space" don't count, the people who made them could be biased! :rolleyes:

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Its an immovable plain built on foundations and covered by a bowl, the celestial bodies are attatched to the bowl.
This was proven as scientific fact during the inquisition because the bible cannot be wrong.

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Its an immovable plain built on foundations and covered by a bowl, the celestial bodies are attatched to the bowl.
This was proven as scientific fact during the inquisition because the bible cannot be wrong.

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That sounds closer to ancient Chinese tradition than anything in the Bible.

Close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Turtle
http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Great_A'Tuin

No, not that. From Zhang, Q. (2015). Making the New World Their Own: Chinese Encounters with Jesuit Science in the Age of Discovery...

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Originally Posted by p. 119

For the most part, the Chinese cosmological discourses on the earth and the seas
reflected this imperial ideological geography that postulated the Four Seas
circumscribing a square earth. Of the three major cosmological traditions in
premodern China, two of them—the Theory of Vaulted Heaven (Gaitian shuo)
and the Theory of Spherical Heaven (Huntian shuo)—as well as their later
variants, tacitly or explicitly subscribed to this world picture. The third, the
Theory of Infinite Empty Space (Xuanye shuo 宣夜說, literally, “theory of ‘ubiquitous
darkness’”), was simply too abstract to have much bearing on such a
matter. As already noted in Chapter 2, one version of the Theory of Vaulted
Heaven depicts a heaven covering the surface of the earth and pivoting daily
around its center point. The earth is said to be square at its base and domeshaped
on its top.

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It's actually pretty hilarious how fiercely the Chinese held onto Flat Earth for a couple hundred years, though the political motivations underlying the debates for both the Jesuits and the Mandarins are important and worth reading.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

That sounds closer to ancient Chinese tradition than anything in the Bible.

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Maybe they borrowed it from the chinese when they wrote the book.

Wasn't it Einstein who thought that the earth wasn't orbitting around the sun but vica versa. Supposedly he could back it up with calculations that are way too complicated for me. With some mathematical superpowers a very clever person who can troll everybody could probably prove that the earth is in fact flat, fourth dimension that sort of stuff, loopholes in time and space, even if anyone can see it isn't. This is fun really, more like a very good match of chess between grandmasters. Should you have an extraordinary level of intelligence, why not have some fun with it

The scariest thing about them is that they usually aren't creationists/fundy christians. It's more closely affiliated to the whole field of conspiracy theories. AFAIK Flat Earthers are usually intersecting with Chemtrailers/Alien believers/whatever.

What I'm wondering all the time is, how do Flat Earthers and Hollow Earthers get along?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Wasn't it Einstein who thought that the earth wasn't orbitting around the sun but vica versa. Supposedly he could back it up with calculations that are way too complicated for me. With some mathematical superpowers a very clever person who can troll everybody could probably prove that the earth is in fact flat, fourth dimension that sort of stuff, loopholes in time and space, even if anyone can see it isn't. This is fun really, more like a very good match of chess between grandmasters. Should you have an extraordinary level of intelligence, why not have some fun with it

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You mean like this?
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/...ves-earth-flat

I also hope that you're saying Einstein was joking.
Unless you want to talk about what is the standard for not moving in the universe. You could define it as your brain and then every time you shake the entire universe around your head, you have proven your point. :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Husar

You mean like this?
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/...ves-earth-flat

I also hope that you're saying Einstein was joking.
Unless you want to talk about what is the standard for not moving in the universe. You could define it as your brain and then every time you shake the entire universe around your head, you have proven your point. :dizzy2:

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I think he was trolling, but I don't know it was actually Einstein, but someone made a clear case. Things like this are fun no, a battle of minds much greater than ours (well mine at least). My much much much smarther brother once a tricked me into believing that 1+1 isn't in fact 2. I cheated and never told him I did and please don't tell him should you meet him because he foolishy links that I am just as smart as him, trust me I'm not. But this is all fun, and should be seen as that. So the earth is flat ok... it aren't religious nutjobs who claim it is so really so stock up on popcorn

EDIT, Just before some deranged viking pisses in my neck, I havent watched the video but know what it's about

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Originally Posted by I of the Storm

What I'm wondering all the time is, how do Flat Earthers and Hollow Earthers get along?

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Who said they do?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I think he was trolling, but I don't know it was actually Einstein, but someone made a clear case. Things like this are fun no, a battle of minds much greater than ours (well mine at least). My much much much smarther brother once a tricked me into believing that 1+1 isn't in fact 2. I cheated and never told him I did and please don't tell him should you meet him because he foolishy links that I am just as smart as him, trust me I'm not. But this is all fun, and should be seen as that. So the earth is flat ok... it aren't religious nutjobs who claim it is so really so stock up on popcorn

EDIT, Just before some deranged viking pisses in my neck, I havent watched the video but know what it's about

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When I read that page, and I just read the end, it seemed to me like the argument made no sense and the conclusion came out of nowhere.
The physics that guy uses have to be pretty weird if he can have a satellite flying above a flat earth and so on.His gravity must stop at a certain distance but then he drops things from said satellite and gravity makes them fall down. :dizzy2:

I really can't be bothered to waste my time reading all of it though.

Don't feel alone Hussie this is trolling for people who are a bit smarter than us

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Don't feel alone Hussie this is trolling for people who are a bit smarter than us

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I didn't say I can't understand it, I said it seems like hogwash although I didn't read all of it.
Physics is not all that hard to understand if someone can explain it well enough.
I don't even need to have full understanding of all the principles he uses though to suspect that he is using them wrong.

Take this for example:

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Let us again venture into thought experiment: eject some pods towards the earth from one such of our imaginary satellites at regular intervals along our orbit such that they are in free fall. Again, we can assume these are straight lines extending below to a translatable location on the surface of the earth, its geolocation. We can say these lines are normal to the trajectory of the satellite and they are normal to the ground, thus making the lines parallel. Since the orbit is straight, and the orbit relates directly to the geographical locations it is above, we have come a long way to show the planet is also flat.

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This is almost circular reasoning because the trajectories are only parallel if the earth is flat, yet he says their parallelism proves that the earth is flat. If he had some actual proof that the trajectories are parallel it might warrant further consideration.
I really don't have the time to get into all the details though, you can probably just read the comments for better dismissals.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Messing around on youtube, looking at some popular science videos, I've been recommended quite a number of videos that "prove" Earth is flat.

So, I've done a bit of research (as you do) and found out that there are probably tens of thousand of people who believe Earth is flat. Not illiterate people, but people who spent at least some time in school. And it's not even "the Bible tells us so" (although I assume that's the driving force)! There's a whole pseudo science about it. Internet sites, blogs, forums, youtube videos,

As a human race, do we really deserve to live or should someone put us all out of our misery?

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*cough*
http://blog.drwile.com/?p=12379

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5muY64Oyp10
Doesn't contribute to the discussion but still relevant.

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...it's just the sort of thing that generally governments do...

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Originally Posted by Vuk

*cough*
http://blog.drwile.com/?p=12379

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A young earth cretin who believes in the infallible bible but doesn't believe in the infallible bible.
Thanks Vuk for pointing out a typical "christian" creationist hypocrit:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Husar

This is almost circular reasoning because the trajectories are only parallel if the earth is flat, yet he says their parallelism proves that the earth is flat. If he had some actual proof that the trajectories are parallel it might warrant further consideration.

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I was taught at school that lines may seem parallel only at a discrete distance. They will eventually converge anyway.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I was taught at school that lines may seem parallel only at a discrete distance. They will eventually converge anyway.

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I'm still angry that I cannot watch something disappear into a black hole.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I was taught at school that lines may seem parallel only at a discrete distance. They will eventually converge anyway.

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You mean like, at the end of the universe?
The theoretical definition of parallel would mean they never converge, in reality it is quite possible due to inaccuracies etc. of course.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I'm still angry that I cannot watch something disappear into a black hole.

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Be glad, if you can you are probably too close to it

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I'm still angry that I cannot watch something disappear into a black hole.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Be glad, if you can you are probably too close to it

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You can if you disappear into it as well and somehow manage to survive until then. Which, admittedly, could be quite hard.

Here's some more to have fun with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDKc6X8TXNE

Uh, you can have as many parallel trajectories on a spherical surface as you want. These are just circles normal to a polar axis.

And because it was mentioned above, the point Einstein was trying to make was that pretty much everything in the Universe is moving relative to everything else. You can't pinpoint one body in the Universe, say that it is in absolute rest and that everything else moves around it, while that body remains absolutely still.

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Originally Posted by Husar

You can if you disappear into it as well and somehow manage to survive until then. Which, admittedly, could be quite hard.

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You will disappear alright, a black hole is simply mass so dense that it sucks up everything. They can only grow these things are jerks

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You will disappear alright, a black hole is simply mass so dense that it sucks up everything. They can only grow these things are jerks

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Now I'm just sad that you thought I did not know that about a black hole.

What are you talking about. A black hole is a hole (duh!). You fall down through it and appear in another universe.

I plan on doing that repeatedly until I find one in which they make me Supreme Ruler of Everything.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

What are you talking about. A black hole is a hole (duh!). You fall down through it and appear in another universe.

I plan on doing that repeatedly until I find one in which they make me Supreme Ruler of Everything.

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There is actually a theory that every black hole is the birth of a new universe and that this is how a universe produces offspring and so on.

I'm sceptical though because what happens to all the matter? Does the new universe only contain the matter/energy that fell into the black hole or is there also magic involved? And if matter falling into a black hole/universe makes it expand and increases its energy, why does our universe expand without gaining more energy? What if two black holes collide?

http://www.space.com/33176-gravitati...collision.html
http://www.nature.com/news/the-black...hysics-1.19612

Does this mean that two entire universes were torn apart or collided into one another? What would it look like if another universe violently collided with ours? If our universe expands and mostly contains nothing, what does it expand into anyway?