Byzantine Infantry unbeatable?

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12-07-2002, 18:10
CeltiberoMordred

I cant find any unit using the same amount of florins that could defeat them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif i think they are too unbalanced: very cheap (only 175 florins) and 100 men. Try to engange them in a frontal assault and u'll see u have nothing to do to stop their incredible rush; they seems the new monks of STW or the superashis of MI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif

This is specially important in MP, people that choose the byzantines are very hard to defeat them; don't care if u dont know how to play: simply pick byzantines to achieve a easy victory...

Any other unit of 100 men (except peasants or similars) are more expensive: order foot 400, cav sergeants 300 or so...and they are quite worse than byz inf; also, byz inft. can face any unit of cav and results victorius...dont u think CA must put up the price of this unit?

Solutions to win against a Byz army?flanking them?you are outnumbered, byz can easily flank you the only thing i can do is to take a whole cav army?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
12-07-2002, 18:20
Knight_Yellow

i luv it when ppl take byz inf there so easy to kill
MILITIA seargents val4 weapons upgrades only 3000 each and they carve up byz quicker than anything also lancers beat them everytime just remember there disiplined so klilling their gen wont make them flee send 2 units of merc calv round each side and hit the rears of the enemy, ie. massed routs lotsa calv chasing them lotsa kills and great valour for ur calv after it, just be sure to rest ur men once the enemy rout only chase with ur horses.
12-07-2002, 18:31
Kocmoc

lol, i love to see guys, who speak about 99k battles.....jeezus.... 15k each should be the max imo.

but to the byz, yes this is the strongest infantry unit u can buy for that money, but i did beat every byzlover till now, so i dont think thats a major problem. and remember they havnt any spears.
12-07-2002, 18:32
Kocmoc

btw, 1 productive post in this forum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
12-07-2002, 21:14
Shahed

To the point. byz inf are tuff to beat. pre patch i never had any problems beating 6-8 byzantine inf army, but post patch I'm having trouble. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif Any more tips ?
12-07-2002, 22:10
Knight_Yellow

Ok Koc since i came on the org uve managed to find a fault with everything ive said and quite frankly its pathetic so if my computer is working by next saturday prove ur point about byz inf against me in a 1v1. and by the way that aint a 99k battle how about 15k like u said, and then well see what happens.
(Ps. this battle is merely me proving a point so that he might stop pestering me everytime i post.)
12-07-2002, 22:49
TosaInu

Knight_Yellow,

Kocmoc is from Germany and you are from Scotland. I guess that there's a bit of a communication problem here.

Kocmoc's opinion is a bit of a strong one due to the way he's expressing it. And a bit confusing too, since no one mentions 99k. The sentence in the follow up makes things confusing too. I assure you that the latter isn't aimed at you Knight_Yellow, but refers to another issue, right Kocmoc?

Knight_Yellow claims that byz inf is easy to beat and Kocmoc claims the same. You're both agreeing about the same, yet we almost have another fight.

I'ld appreciate if both put some more effort in stating what's meant and/or trying to understand the other.
12-07-2002, 23:35
LadyAnn

TosaInu is not from Scottland so he may miss what Yellow Knight meant: Yellow Knight will take Byz army while Kocmoc will try to defeat it.

Annie
(*** run for the door, a challenge for the duel is up ***)
12-08-2002, 00:29
HopAlongBunny

Try the same value of Janissary heavies vs the Byzantine inf.
12-08-2002, 00:50
hundurinn

Byzantine infantry is one of the best I had 30 Byz infantry
against 40 teutions knights and I beated the I lost 10 men.
12-08-2002, 01:04
Knight_Yellow

it wasnt a fight or arguement i was trying to start its what annie is saying if he takes byz inf i will show him how to beat them or at least counter them in sutch a way that either side could win.
12-08-2002, 01:25
TosaInu

Kocmoc knows how to beat byz inf :-) That's my point: the two of you are saying (about) the same thing.
12-08-2002, 03:58
Kocmoc

well, thx tosa.

i will fight u ofcourse i never run away for a nice challange http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

im sure for the price the byzinfantry beat every other h2h unit. But....hehe..... ur army has 16 units...and byz hasnt any spears. -------> ChargeBonuss
12-08-2002, 05:14
Shahed

Thx for the tip Bunny. I'll try that.
Hundurinn: I have found that a good cav unit can damage those BI (Byzantines Infatry) as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Any other strategies for beating a byzantine inf heavy army ?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
12-08-2002, 06:18
Alrowan

well i find if you just occupy them in h2h for long enough to circle thier rear with cav youve easily routed that unit, and just move down the line as such. Another point is that people tend to tire out thier byz inf very quickly
12-08-2002, 15:49
KukriKhan

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Kocmoc @ Dec. 07 2002,08:32)]btw, 1 productive post in this forum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

Yeah, I think Knight_Yellow took Kocmoc's post to mean: mine is the only productive post here, where I took it to mean: hey look my 1st productive post in the EH. (which I duly note and appreciate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif ).

Language...gotta love it. So which of you two guys is gonna teach this old fart how to win in MP? I must defeat the other mod's. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif
12-08-2002, 21:08
Hosakawa Tito

Calling in a ringer are we Kukri http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif , I finally beat Mith in our last 2 battles today, both very close. He's a tricky little bushwacker, watch the tree line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif
12-09-2002, 00:14
Knight_Yellow

Oh ok i see now hmm maybes thats why i hated english class...
sorry about any missunderstanding,
yeah byz inf are good but i have found that they have several weaknesses ie. there expensive if u take more than 4 and any byz player usualy does but the unit i hate the most even more than chiv knights id varagnian guard there very hardy, the only thing ive seen them sucumb to is arrows lots and lots of arrows... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
12-09-2002, 16:15
SmokWawelski

Sorry to put my two words into this discussion, but I would like to see how this challenge plays out. It would be great if you guys could post your after-match conclusions here as a means of closing the topic. I am sure that everybody would appreciate it.

BTW: is there an option to join a battle as an observer? In some mp games you can do that…

PS. My goodness, I hope I made myself clear; I am an ESL guy...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
12-09-2002, 16:18
Mithrandir

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Hosakawa Tito @ Dec. 08 2002,14:08)]Calling in a ringer are we Kukri http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif , I finally beat Mith in our last 2 battles today, both very close. He's a tricky little bushwacker, watch the tree line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

still 3-2 for me though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif.

I was http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/pissed.gif to see that you had discovered my knights... so close... certain victorie...so close.
12-09-2002, 19:16
Puzz3D

Celtibero Mordred,

The Byz Inf does seem to be the best hth inf unit for the money in MP, although, the handgunner is very strong as well. You can avoid the hangunner by not playing late period, and this also avoids cannon. However, it does introduce the Byz Varangian Guard which is another tough unit strengthening the Byz faction. I don't think there is any way around the fact that you have to get 2 units on 1 to beat Byz Inf. Possibly a Lancer or Gothic Knight can beat them, but most cav loose which breaks the normal rock, paper, scissors system. Their slightly lower morale is the main weakness, and, once you get one of these units to rout, you should chase them off the map if possible.

The main reason Byz armies go down to defeat is poor tactics. Many players just make a frontal rush with them and get flanked resulting in a chain rout. I don't use the Byz, but I know playing against them requires a lot of skill to get in the necessary flank attacks. Skilled players protect their flanks, so your only chance then is to force a break at some point along the line. That's not easy, and chances are your own line will break at some other spot. You still might pull out a win if you can isolate and flank individual enemy units in the subsequent chaos.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~
12-12-2002, 15:23
All_the_Sultan's_horses

Perhaps, but they dun get any good spear units. basically Byzinf die like flies against heavy cav. Byzinf do shine when used closely with Varangian Guard and Pronoai Allagion, though
12-12-2002, 15:52
barocca

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Hosakawa Tito @ Dec. 08 2002,14:08)]I finally beat Mith in our last 2 battles today, both very close. He's a tricky little bushwacker, watch the tree line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

Mith and i are even stevens i think, he has flogged me once when i accidently hit select all and turned my entire army side on,
and once when i was exhausted (me, myself - begging to be allowed to go sleep),
but i do so enjoy playing against Mith,
and yes, watch the tree line...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

the best battles are usually absoulte slaughters, with 700+ kills each...that should tell those who have watched me regularly score max kills online something about Mith...
12-12-2002, 18:18
Cheetah

The Byzantine mainstain units have terrible morale (byz inf, kathapracts). So if you can survive the initial onslaught then you are in a good position to win http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
12-12-2002, 19:58
SmokWawelski

Yes, the morale might be the key. 20 minutes ago I was defending against an army of Byz and I was ready to call it off. I had several infantry units, steppe cavalry and mounted sergeants plus one cannon and no missile units in the province. On top of that my general had -1 as the morale I lined up what I had and hoped for the best.

My cavalry was able to avoid enemy infantry and charge into several units of hand gunners, archers and arbs. Not waiting for the worst and let my infantry charge as the enemy was maneuvering in front of my flanks. Miracle: the routing missile units caused other units to route and I even did not have to attack the Byz infantry (I hope I got it all right as I still cannot believe my victory and could have gotten some things wrong)

I have the save so I will take a look again; if anybody wants it, send me an Email.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif
12-19-2002, 23:18
SmokWawelski

Well, I think I got too lucky last time. Today I got my crusade decimated by a solely unit of Byz infantry with a 9 stars general. My poor people did not want to even get close to that monster... So do my assassins. I pray for a disaster in Byzantium... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif
12-20-2002, 00:05
Dark Prince

I have beaten 300 unit of byzantine infantry with only 4 unit of chivalry knight before,the trick is to flank them from behind,once they get attack from both side,they will start to rout.I agree that on MP,most people will choose Byzantine and play on early period,it give them advantage,so don't do frontal assult on byzantine infantry,it is almost like suicide... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif