$weden

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02-28-2003, 01:36
Longshank

I've recently discovered MTW and have been playing a couple of campaigns as the English.

In my first campaign I had some difficulties with my income for the first 100 years or so. I was always running out of florins. As I was slowly building up trade routes I decided to send a ship into the baltic to do some trading with the Danes, and to my surprise Sweden was yet to be conquered. The only rebel forces there was 4 units of Vikings, which in the late 1100's were no match for my feudal army. In fact as soon as I landed my Army there, they all fled to Norway without a fight. 15 years later Sweden was pulling in 2000+ florins a year, it's population completely loyal even with very high taxes and a relatively small garrison (about 250 men). This cash flow was unmatched by any other province that I controlled. Also Sweden is in such a great isolated location that no enemy factions ever bother with it as long as you don't piss off the Danes too much. I wonder why the Danes ignored such a great province to begin with?

In my next, and current campaign (also as the English) I again found Sweden un-claimed long after the game started. Again it is one of my cash cows. I love it. Sweden Rocks.

As for Norway, just like Scotland I found it to be a complete waste of money and resources trying to tame. There just isn't any profits to be made there. By ignoring Norway while claming lordship over Sweden gives the Viking barbarians somewhere to hang out instead of starting trouble.

The Vikings are happy, I'm rich, everyones happy

Go Sweden

P.S. This is my first post... Great site, Excellent forum.
02-28-2003, 02:07
desdichado

It is a mystery to me why the Danes do not take Sweden. In fact they generally only try to take it after another faction grabs it and then get the hell beat out of them. It is a lack in the programming - they are just not aggressive enough.

You are right Sweden is one of the best provinces to get and only reachable by land through Denmark or by sea so easy to defend.

However, you are wrong about norway. It can still generate a substantial amount of florins from trade. You have to make sure you have a ship in the small sea area at the top of the map (i forget the name) . Build a port and you will see what I mean. Definitely worth taking if you can spare the men and after a few years is not rebellious either. I think Norway, Sweden & Denmark is one of the best regions on the whole map - good income, iron in Sweden, defensible and Denamrk gives +1 to command to a general. Its only drawback is its reliance on trade as farm income not much good.

I also like Scotland for its clansmen (Ireland for gallowglasses) they make excellent flankers, are cheap and besides I like the idea of my armies including lots of crazed men with big swords.
02-28-2003, 02:13
Heraclius

I've noticed this too, desdichado. The danes just sit there in Denmark for years making no money and training no new units. Then the French or Germans or even Almohads take Sweden and BAM there is an army of 500 Danish peasants ready to take on a massive force of knights. The poor danes, when they actually try and do something, ge the sh*t beat out of them. If they only expanded earlier they would have a nice little Baltic and maybe English kingdom, as I've done many a time.
Longshank, you should definitely heed desdichado's advice. Set up a few trade routes from Norway to France and England and you've got a nice little source of income although Sweden is much richer. Anyway good luck.
02-28-2003, 02:53
Longshank

Ok, perhaps I'll consider taking Norway again. There may be some $$$ to be made there after all.

Thanks for the advice.
02-28-2003, 03:16
KukriKhan

Hi Longshank, welcome to the .Org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

There's another patron here with a name very similar to your's. Hope there's no conflict.

Good observation, re: Sweden. I go for it, Lithuania and Kiev as soon as possible, for the high trade $$$ available and excellent positioning.
02-28-2003, 09:40
Hamburglar

If you play as the Danes you definitely want Norway - gives +1 valor to vikings.
02-28-2003, 12:03
Brutal DLX

Also, Norway can generate a nice trade income if built up properly. Along with the bonus for buildings Vikings, you shouldn't disregard it so easily.
As for the Danes never taking Sweden, I think it has to do with the AI code. The Danes have just one province, bordering on the HRE. That makes the Danish AI wary to move away enough forces to Sweden in order to attack, while at the same time it leaves their only province totally unprotected. The AI will not take this risk. It will only attack the HRE in Saxony because it knows the rebels in Sweden are neutral and won't backstab if they invade Saxony. It will not bribe the Swedish rebels either because it uses its starting money for buildings, and considering the low income in Denmark, the close to support limit script will kick in, I think.
This can be fixed if you mod the game to give Sweden to the Danes from the get-go. I found they do pretty well then...
02-28-2003, 13:18
Jxrc

I will never understand why the Danes never take Sweden when controlled by the AI ...

When playing as the Danes, that the first step to take ...

First line of every Danish campaign should be :

By 1087, King Olaf I had a tiny silly kingdom and decided to expand. He took 100 spearmen and 60 Vikings with him and marched on Sweden. The 120 rebel Vikings retreated without even considering putting up a fight and left for Norway where they would await annihilation or bribery (P.S. do not raise taxes to very high in Denmark if it is left unguarded and if no watch towers have been built yet because you would then have a small risk of rebellion).

I agree that Norway is not that good if you do not play as the Danes (nice trade income though) but as Hamburglar said if you do Vikings with +1 valour are worth the trouble.
02-28-2003, 23:32
ToranagaSama

Norway has TWO tradeable goods One less than Sweden and two more than most other provinces.

Efficiency is the KEY to trading. If you go a trade network setup from Sweden, then all it takes is ONE ship to make Norway into a money maker. Icing on the cake. With every additional ship you get to an AI port pays you not just with Sweden's 3 tradeables, but also with Norway's two, so that's the benefit of 5 tradeables with each ship past the North Sea.

Get Denmark going, and that makes SEVEN tradeables with every ship past the North Sea.

These three provinces are worth more than ALL of the British Isles. Only the Egytians have it as good.
02-28-2003, 23:42
cugel

If you download and install Wes W.'s MedMod you will find that the Danes do just fine They take Sweden and Norway and churn out lots of ships. You will definitely have a fight on your hands to take Sweden and Norway from them
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Much more of a challenge. In my current campaign as the English, I'm just hoping they don't attack my fleet in the English Channel while I'm fighting the French and Spanish
03-02-2003, 21:18
Kalle

Hello people http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

I think this is a very nice subject because i`m... Swedish http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

I must say the game is handling Sweden historically correct. Though the danes in this time were more powerful then the Swedes they never managed to take Sweden allthough it was close on several occassions (countless battles has been fought between danes and Swedes) and at little later time in history then this game goes their king actually sat in Stockholm for a while (Christian II -in Sweden called Christian the tyrrant and in Denmark Christian the good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Back to game era...

Also correct is the much trade items in the game. Sweden was involoved in heavytrading with the powerful northgerman commercial company of the Hanza (hanzeatic leauge)

So Sweden was during this time never completely conquered by danes or anyone else. In fact during this time Sweden conquered Finland which then was united with Sweden for well over 700 years.

So go SWEDEN http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Wish it had been a playable faction in the game.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

But i agree with you others to, i would like Denmark to be more aggressive and take Sweden so they would play bigger part in the game.

By for now, glad you all find Sweden so great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
03-03-2003, 15:37
Tigger

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (cugel @ Feb. 28 2003,16:42)]If you download and install Wes W.'s MedMod you will find that the Danes do just fine They take Sweden and Norway and churn out lots of ships. You will definitely have a fight on your hands to take Sweden and Norway from them
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Much more of a challenge. In my current campaign as the English, I'm just hoping they don't attack my fleet in the English Channel while I'm fighting the French and Spanish

I've also found that Wes W's mod rectifies this problem and also improves AI trading a lot which makes the game better. Factions are given attributes such as aggressive naval expansionist (Danes) or traders (italians) which i think makes a difference as well..
03-03-2003, 17:54
Mortal Cabbage

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (ToranagaSama @ Feb. 28 2003,16:32)]These three provinces are worth more than ALL of the British Isles. Only the Egytians have it as good.

Well, if you're talking about an economic home base, yes, the Scandinavian countries are quite good. But the best starting lands are Spain, imho. Once you conquer the peninsula from Navarre & Aragon to Morocco, you've got 7 tradables as well, and incredible rich farmlands. a 2-turn farm improvement in Leon or Castille for example, will give you +100 florins each turn. You can generate about 10000-13000 florins each turn pretty quickly, and keep on building in those provinces as long as you like. While the other factions are raiding eachothers forts and keeps, you can get your citadels up and running without having to worry about anything.
03-03-2003, 20:33
Nelson

Almost the entire Baltic coast is worth controlling for its' trade value. Any northern power should aquire it ASAP. Link up to the Med and you're in clover.
03-04-2003, 06:33
Gregoshi

Hello Mortal Cabbage and welcome. I've this sudden craving for cole slaw. If there is a story behind your name, I'd love to hear it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif