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Hey all,
Well, I decided to post my own personal review after having it for... almost two weeks now I think.
I haven't spent every hour of every day on the game, but I have tried to play a couple hours each day and on the weekends. Mostly SP (single player), but also some MP (multi player).
First, a brief on the Mongols Campaign...
This is not too good. I played (kinda) once for each side on expert. As the mongols, I played a couple of battles, then just did autoresolves... I got half of Japan before deciding to quit. Even with autoresolves, the Mongol forces are very tough to stop. Only enemy taishos with rank 4 or above were much of a threat. And in even battles... Mongols swept up (mostly). As Hojo, the battles are a bit tougher, but you have sooo many territories and koku... not too much fun and I only did it for a couple years.
OK, now for the bulk of the stuff...
Sengoku Campaign:
THIS was vastly improved... this is a great improvement, I can't say enough about it. A total of 4 different "campaign scenarios" add to the replayability and the enjoyment. Historical accuracy is MUCH better since the different times take into account the ronins... which now have personality.
The game also has a "longer" feel to it since the buildings are cheaper... Thus, you can plan out more building and often have to decide what to build or what to train. Better to specialize a territory? or just build lots of stuff?
-Alliances: much better
-Heirs: much better
-competition: much better
-Battles: much better (smarter AI)
-hordes: very minimal... no real hordes that I have seen (yet).
-bribing: VERY well done. Not too powerful, not too weak.
-province loyalty: still a bit hard to totally understand, but I think I like it. Makes SHINOBI a unit of use as well as strategic.
-succession: haven't had the revolts like the others have had, but I wish I did! Sounds interesting.
-factions re-emerging: none yet... but I wish they would.
-long term vs short term: VERY important... pay attention to regional fighting, and get your head handed to you later... must keep balance of power.
-Geisha: have not had a problem with them yet.
-ports: much more strategic now in my opinion.
-drill dojo: relevent??? AT FIRST I thought you needed it in order to retrain troops, but I don't think you do... I was able to retrain (and upgrade) units at any land that could produce those units... so what does the drill dojo really do???
I think that's the major things about it... hopefully I didn't miss anything.
specific (personal things)...
-Alright... first, as some of you know... I am a big Asai fan... AND I must say... I am VERY disappointed that Asai Nagamasa has still NOT been included in the Mori clan taisho-ship... ESPECIALLY since they give him the credit at Anegawa.
-There are some slight heir problems with the 1580 campaign... duplicates at the beginning.
-Mori Yoshinari is still an heir, while Mori Takemoto is not... backwards
-These above problems should be VERY easy to fix since these are just texts (right?)... and for the most part, starting text.
-REINFORCEMENTS: Interesting way of handleing it...
Overall, it is annoying, BUT I think it works for the most part. I would recommend giving the player the option of choosing WHERE his reinforcements come in BEFORE the battle actually starts... like at the beginning when troops are being placed. (and yes, you can select your starting 16 units) By selecting where reinforcements will come in, you have some idea of their presence... however, that could HELP OR HURT once the real battle begins.
I actually applaud the designers on this since the earlier option allows the side that was winning to just rout reinforcements once they enter the field of battle.
Generals: Well done with the stars...
But there is a bug with the rank displayed on the strategy map vs. the real rank... I have seen this with both Daimyos and generals. And it's pretty obvious... their info screen will say "rank x", but if you do the math yourself, they would have "rank y"... not sure what is up with this... one idea... for some reason it takes a loss battle as a loss in rank(?)... Uesugi Kenshin for example should have been rank6, but was only rank 1... Whether this affected the actual battle, I don't know. (he was a neutral to me)
-RONIN REVOLTING ARMIES RETREAT AND DISAPPEAR. This has happened several times... A ronin army revolts in province "A" successfully. A ronin army then revolts in province "B" or "C", which are adjacent to province "A". However, those armies choose to retreat to a neighboring province (says so in a dialogue box). BUT, they completely disappear. This seems like a bug, but maybe not. (makes it harder to disrupt my enemy's lines of provincial reinforcements)
-potential error in SP battles with more than 2 players... Has to do with what general gets win/loss and when battle should stop... Example: Oda(?) and I were at war and both invaded a province and the battle ended as soon as the defender was routed, but while Oda and I were still engaged in hand to hand... And time limit wasn't up.
Also: I am pretty sure that my taisho (different time) got a loss once after my army and Takeda (my ally) beat a ronin force... I ended up with the province, but my taisho's record was then 17-1, and I am 95% sure he was 17-0 before the battle started (it was Nobunaga).
Overall, very good product and this is what the original PROBABLY should have been. HOWEVER, there are some small bugs and I hope the patch team takes advantage of their list of Beta testers... all of whom would love to help them make the game a better one.
And, historical accuracy could be better... (it's pretty good now, but it good be better)
Multiplayer:
Ok, I have only played about 6 battles (not many people around) and I am... disappointed (I think would be the best word).
Problem 1: MORALE.... either the original way, or much closer to the original. Ashigaru (guns and spears) should not be able to fight till the last man. Monks and yari spearman... maybe.
example: an enemy army of ~7 or 8 monks and 3 archers and ~5 guns vs my balanced army (no guns, 2 ninja, 1 kensai)... I chose rain all day, passing up light rain... Needless to say, I was dismayed to see the muskets firing, but... being the innovative player I am, I tried some sneaky things... BUT with muskets with morale that high... you can't rout them before the monks get there to reinforce (note, I didn't just charge straight forward, it was a side attack and I definitely had the muskets/archers vs cav for enough time to have routed them in the original game). I consider myself to be good at killing muskets... Now, maybe it is just me, but I think ninja, attacking from the back... should be able to cause ashigaru units to rout...
Problem 2: some of the special games may be buggy... not 100% sure how it works.
Problem 3: Mongols are a strong force... AND THERE IS NO NINJA IN THAT TIME PERIOD... this is very disappointing... (at least, I didn't see the ninja) I played a guy (2v2) who had all skirmishers... decent in a 2v2, but 1v1 on a flat map, his force would have been toast.
Problem 4: Servers different/no mongols vs mongols...
Problem 5: Still doesn't recognize free for alls (FFA).... This is important for the King of the hill, capture the flag, etc.... games. Sometimes you want to go FFA.
GOOD: seeing everyone's honor, the info given before starting a game, the added game types.
New units:
Mongols: not enough experience to give a big, detailed opinion, but they are strong...
Kensai: a useful unit, but not by itself... needs support to keep the enemy from surrounding it.
Ninja: I love them... I just wish they had more of a morale effect in Multiplayer... A group of 12 ninja vs. 60 Ashigaru... I don't see how the ashigaru could fight until they have 10 or less men... I think the morale would need to be something like... if they lose 20-30 men quickly, they break then. No question in my mind. Ashigaru are not samurai.
Lastly...
Two things are MISSING.
1. Multiplayer (I know, I know)... it won't happen, BUT this would make the game great.
2. Campaign/scenario editor... If we could have a limited one atleast... So that I could insert an Asai Taisho into the Mori clan... Or change names so that I could create another time... for example... 1565 or something... Oda's expansion... I could put in the proper daimyo's/taishos...
Overall, I like what I see guys...
But, there are some let downs. However, I think a patch could repair/fix A LOT of these things.
well, hopefully this info was useful to someone.
Please feel free to post comments/questions or your own reviews.
crap... that was long.
: )
-Zen Blade
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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member
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Well, I'm going to take this opportunity to once more promote my new Khan7's Archive on STW Modification 1.0, which is a very good database and tutorial (and the only one so far) on modding STW. One point of especial interest is that I think I have found the source of the new morale behavior, namely in a unit attribute, "unroutable", which all non-ashigaru Japanese units have.
Anyway, the guide provides useful info on how to alter any of the units to whatever your imagination can dream up, as well as instruction on how to make your own campaigns, along with all of the info you need to perform these tasks. You can fix the morale "bug", mod it up for the American Civil War (as I plan to do), and probably play all of this online. And of course you can create as many campaigns as you want, with nearly the whole and full flexibility the developers themselves used. Put your e-mail addy here or contact me at gengiskan0@cs.com to get a copy. The LEGAL location for this discussion is in the mods/patches forum.
Now to move on to topics that won't raise the ire of the admins for being in the wrong forum. First of all, muskets are supposed to have some LIMITED usefullness in rain, but with reload times and accuracy suffering greatly. This is more or less realistic, and intended (and has been discussed on this forum a while ago).
I'm guessing the reason for no Mongols vs. Mongols is the way they handled morale-- they added a very strong "oh crap we're scared of mongols!!" attribute to all Mongol units (i.e. they scare people). Mongols also kill quickly, which makes for quick routing. For this reason they gave most of the Japanese units the "unroutable" characteristic (at least this is my theory..), which helps take the edge off of some of this.
So if you put Mongols vs. Mongols, you have to armies that are scared to death of eachother, will kill eachother quickly, and don't have the "unroutable" attribute, and therefore I'm guessing will probably rout eachother completely within seconds and the *lucky* guy who ended up on the slightly better side will have like his taisho hang in there and be counted as winner.
Also, the guy with all skirmishers in his army wasn't daft-- have you checked these things out??! They kill like hell.. they are nearly invulnerable to missle fire, they can defeat any Japanese cavalry unit easily in melee, can hold their own against infantry in melee, and their javelins are DEVASTATING, with about 80% of the effectiveness of thunderbombers-- except no big worries about blowing yourself to bits! There are no counterunits for these except maybe Kensai, so it's pretty much mostly countertactics, and given the power and versatility of the skirmishers those tactics are going to be hard to implement against someone who knows how to the skirms.
As far as Ashis vs. Ninjas, whether or not they would *realistically* (i.e. real life) rout would in my opinion depend on a few things-- whether they were isolated or had many of their comrades nearby to boost them up and also pressure them not to run, and in general what's going on around them, whether things they are seeing with the rest of the battle are going to give them a bad feeling about fighting. In any case I'd say it would be realistic that if they were getting mopped up they would RETREAT or fall back, but as in this game there is no retreating, only routing, I'm not sure if I can totally condemn the way its being handled.
Anyway, good review, brings up good points, many of which have already been dealt with in this forum, but good review anyway.
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Khan7
