Kataphraktoi

Hey Kata http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

I posted on your Dark Age thread about helping you, but i also read on my alexius mod that you wouldnt mind possibly helpin out too.

So i was wondering if i came up with list of new units to be made for a Islamic Conquest Era (650-700) and a Byzantine Offensive era campaign (863-1025) we could do some cool latter dark age stuff.

From what i understand, you will have even more abilities to make new units with VI - so if we laid the groundwork now, and couple the possibilites of VI we could do some great latter dark ages mods.

I'll do research and focus on startpos and other files if you can make the new units.

Perhaps even a few of our historian friends can pitch in on some research if we need any. What you think?

What units do you have on your mind???

U realise that if u make new units from scratch u can't play your old savegames except for your latest savegame with the new units.

Modding existing units will change your some of your replays units.

I have some thoughts perhaops u can expand on them?
Pharganoi tagmata, elite infantry
Banu Habib fast light footed skirmishers
Khurramites medium infantry like a Turcoman footsoldier

I reckon we should give the Byz the abiltiy to train vikings but only in the areas where they can be found.

Any chance of bulking up the Byz fleet? The Byz fleet had a capital fleet, they had exclusive naval bases in the Carabisian theme where southern coast of Nicaea is in MTW. often they were split between Black Sea and Aegean duties.

In my mod I gave bonuses for fleets made in Crete, Cyprus and Rhodes

Have you thought of increasing trade? Adding tradeable goods to more regions, the AI seems to bankrupt itself, some more tradable goods would stimulate their economies, also I added more resources in certain regions.

Klibanophori don;t appear in this period till Nicephorus or John Curcuas's time so I guess they don;t appear in the early Islamic period

What units do you have on your mind???

U realise that if u make new units from scratch u can't play your old savegames except for your latest savegame with the new units.

Modding existing units will change your some of your replays units.

I have some thoughts perhaops u can expand on them?
Pharganoi tagmata, elite infantry
Banu Habib fast light footed skirmishers
Khurramites medium infantry like a Turcoman footsoldier

I reckon we should give the Byz the abiltiy to train vikings but only in the areas where they can be found.

Any chance of bulking up the Byz fleet? The Byz fleet had a capital fleet, they had exclusive naval bases in the Carabisian theme where southern coast of Nicaea is in MTW. often they were split between Black Sea and Aegean duties.

In my mod I gave bonuses for fleets made in Crete, Cyprus and Rhodes

Have you thought of increasing trade? Adding tradeable goods to more regions, the AI seems to bankrupt itself, some more tradable goods would stimulate their economies, also I added more resources in certain regions.

Klibanophori don;t appear in this period till Nicephorus or John Curcuas's time so I guess they don;t appear in the early Islamic period






http://www.geocities.com/weirdguynextdoor/AD713.jpg

ad 713

http://www.geocities.com/weirdguynex...rieeleison.jpg

da map

as u can see close to finish but no cigars yet.

In my alexsius mod, i have already beefed up trade items throughout the map, nearly every coastal province has at least (1) trade item, most have several - which i based off of lots of research.

As far as units - well i dont every unit we would need for either period, but i had a few ideas.

tagmata forces
some forms of slavic infantry
theme infantry, archers and cavalry
various armenian, georgian, & other auxillery/ally troops
rus warrios (vikings)
khazars
pecenegs
various bulgarian units
germanic tribal units (for visigothic spain, the franks, and lombards)
some islamic units

any input by you would be great too, i admit i dont know everything about the military forces of this time - my expertise tends to be more in the socio-politico sphere of history - and to be honest military "units" for this time is generally sketchy at best.

Im pretty sure that most early era units are applicable to at least the 863 era - afterall chainmail is chainmail, only difference is regional units and peoples.

and yeah in my mod, Byz can train viking in the Rus lands, crimea and const.

additionally with VI, we may hopefully be able to add some of the units found therein, into MTW, that would help out with new units too.

As far as old save games, once i get all the units i desire and all the mods im workin on, ill never play another mod, or the orig mtw anyways http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif so it wont matter to me hehe

I'm looking forward to making Tagmata units myself,

hey Galestrum should we make the Tagmata units unique units that can only be trained and produced in Constantinople????
Since the Tagmata was the only full time professional mobile force around compared to the soldier farmers of Anatolia who were part timers rather than full time professionals.
This would add a challenge in that an Emperor has to make the choice of whether he should send his Tagmata to the East of the West or divide his Tagmata halving its full effectiveness as a complete force?
I know there were several Tagmata groups perhaps we can make certain tagmata groups into specific unit groups??


eg, Scholae are heavy infantry only
Heteira are heavy cavalry only
Numeri are axe beaers eetc, etc only

takes some real micromanagement.

When ur ready to start send me the startpos mod so I orientatte myself and familiarise myself with the period, send me some historical notes if you think certain aspects of certain units should be emphasised ok???

this is a great idea Kata, in my Alexius Mod i changed production dramatically

The idea of many unique troops tied to geographical regions is very important and realistic. Amenians, anatolians, balkans etc should all have their strengths and weaknesses, and raised/produced in their homelands.

The tagmata units should for the most part limited to Const, basic theme units anywhere, armenians to armenia etc etc etc

Basic frontline Imperial units should be produced anywhere that has a castle7 and a royal palace (this would imitate the large cities/administrative centers) that could produce units like Byz Inf but not the elite tagmata etc

I should be done readin on Byz 863-to Basil by tommorrow, then ill send you a basic overview, also whats your email?

mine is galestrum@cfl.rr.com

email you soon

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

fuzzwuzznuzz@hotmail.com

Yeah i agree reconstructing the administrative system fo the EMpire is important. Tagmata here we come, I hope the other fellas are keeping up with our developments.

How are the titles of the governors coming up?
Are they still governors or are they :
Strategos
Clissurachs
Dukes

I love how Byzantium has so many titles that are either practical or useless but have cool long names like Spathocandidaturoi
or Sebastocrator

Hey Kata,

so far this is what i have gotten done. My info comes from (2) books The Late Byzantine Army by Bartusis, which covers the Byzantine Army after 1204, obviously im only takin info from here which relates prior 1204 info.

My primary source is The Making Of Byzantium by Whittow which covers 600-1025 AD.

Basically we have a few issues and approaches we can take. According to him, the "theme armies" orginnated in the early 720s for a firm date - some say earlier others later, but around this time, there is firm evidence for what people deemed the theme armies.

He said that all we know about them infantry "was that they existed" and that all the info we have regards the thematic cavalry. He described theme cavalry as "shadowing" the ememy and doing hit and run raids - and if the invaders were not pushed back or left of their own accord - only then would there be a battle.

He says that the theme cavalry was heavily armoured and elite and well paid.

The Tagmata is what destroyed the Theme system, interestingly, both armies were based upon military philophies. The Theme armies were defensive in nature and tied to local areas and formed the core of the field armies.
The tagmata was centered on Constantinople and the Emperor and was offensive in nature.

The tagmata was described as elite, well paid and well trained, often many were foriegners (a trend which grew more and more) as these became more trusted by Emperors as oppossed to local troops.

The Tagmata can be seen as coming into its own between 930-950 AD. It appears that most of the elite Theme forces were slowly transferred into the Tagmata and as time went by, the Theme armies became very poor in military value, basically viewed as merely "militia forces", of little military use.

Other Byzantine units of import were the Armenians, Khazars, Rus, some black african units (similar to the negro spearmen from the sounds)among others.

Regarding the Tagmatic Armies, they were described as a mixture of Heavy and light spearmen, with heavy cavalry used to smash enemy infantry and cavalry formations and archers and slingers.

more to come

Kataphraktos were described as med cavalry armed with lance and bow

Kilanophorous as massively armored shock cavalry, mostly armed with lance, though 1/5 had a bow

Most Light cavalry came from mercs (pecenegs, turks, etc)

Theme Cavalry seemed to come in a heavy version armed with lance and a lighter version with bow and lance

Trapezti Cavalry was a light roman cavalry often armed with sword and spear along with javelins - some were mentioned to be horse archers

There were (4) tagmata regiments, scholae, excubiti, Arithmos(vigla) and Ikanatoi. Scholae being the best, Ikanatoi being the newest, and least seasoned. All were elite however.

Byzantine Skuatoi were described thus: armed with a heavy pike 12-14 feet in length, a short sword, wearing heavy armor like their cavalry counterparts. They were "skilled at handling cavalry assaults". They also hurled javelins, armed with 1-2 heavy javelins each.

As a general rule, all the front line Byzantine units were described as being highly disciplined.

Slavic Tribal forces were described as being fast and able to ambush effectively. They wore little to no armor, but had shields.

Hungarian Cavalry often had bow, sabre, and spear and axe, and were fast and adept at ambushes.

Arab forces seem similar to what we already have. There seemed to be a fanatical core around this time, similar to the ghazi infantry as well as something called the "Jund" cavalry. Along with the bedouin, and light and medium arab cavalry. They were noted as often imitating byzantine forces in type, but tended to be more numerous but less disciplined (as reflected in MTW to some extent).

Byzantine Light Infantry seems to be similar to the Trebizond Archers, lightly armored, armed with a bow and a battle axe.

The Bulgarians had a noble or elite cavalry and used slavic infantry and slavic skirmishers as infantry. whereas the bulgarians formed most of the horse archers and assault cavalry.

There are a few books made by the Osprey series which may be somewhat helpful but i dont have them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif

thats about all the info i have access too. Perhaps we can make some of these unit types, and use some of those already created ib LKs expansion pack.

I know they have Bulgarian, magyar, avar, georgian cavalry. We could use some slavic infantry types to be made and some Rus warrior types, and perhaps Varangians, before they became the Varangian Guard.

potential factions for 863 era include :

1)Romans
2)Bulgarian
3)Khazars
4)Kievan Rus
5)Pope (minus crusades)
6)Arab Raidin Emirates of (Antioch, Edessa, Lesser Armenia, Armenia, Cyprus and Crete)
7)Abassid Caliphate (i think thats right) Based in Baghdad, in effect the Egyptian Faction
8) The Franks - France
9) HRE
10) Kingdom of Italy
11) Spanish (Austurias) - not exactly, but what would become the spanish
12) Burgundy
13) Danes
14) Great Moravia

its kinda hard to find alot of "factions' in this time period as most of europe still resembled a bunch of independent tribal groups - any idea from others would be cool. Basically for the period 863 on

If this is too hard, we could go to the time slightly before the accension of Basil II 976-1025, but of course wed lose that presents factional problems as well, for instance the Bulgars and Raiding emirates are already destroyed

regarding titles yeah there were many, and most were absolutely meaningless. I dont mind adding additional titles, however, i dont think we should add a bunch of meaningless titles, as they would be, well meaningless http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

If we do a theme era mod, the governors should be called stratgoi - otherwise, doux or duke is perfectly fine, although we may wanna do a lil research on specific provincial titles if we want to get crazy motivated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/dizzy.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

regarding the tagmata, is it possible to make their shilds have the byzantine symbol on it? i have noticed the skuatoi from LKs expansion have the flag symbol on the shields in certain maps.

It would be great for the tagmata to have that symbol for their battles.

Did you want to break down the tagmata by troop type or by division? from what i read the 4 divisions of the tagmata were merely broken down by experience and position not by weapon type or what not. If this was the case i suggest breaking the tagmata down by weapon type.

You seem to know alot about this, if you have any sources i could get a hold of id love to learn more - where is hera and elwe and the other history dorks? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

For the Tagmata we might need to force our own historical "correctness"

I think the Tagmata should be arranged by unit type to make it easier, and also I think we should identify the byzantine units that can only be produced for the Tagmata be restricting them to be produced at Constantinople or Nicaea or Anatolia.

We should set aside a Tagmata where it consists only of mercenaries hired from the Inn, this will cover the Pharganoi, the Ethopian unit, Khazars and other foreign units. (Varangian Guards are different from the Tagmata, they are a unit to themselves)

Tagmata units only not trained anywhere else:
Constantinople:
Klibanophori = Scholae?
Kataphraktoi = Excubiti?

Nicaea
Byzantine Cavalry = Ikanatoi?
Pronoia Allagion (don;t exist till the Comnenes so how bout we make them Latin knights in service of Byzantium given land?)

Anatolia:
Skutatoi infatry (front rank, heavy infantry, full time professionals) best place for these are the hardy, warlike and tough anatolians on the plateau where mountainous warfare is their bread and butter.

Mercenaries tagmata = Vigla?

Other untis are considered normal and can be produced anywhere else:
Byzantine infantry (part time soldier farmers)
Turcoman horseman (can be considered as Arabs who have settled under byzantine protection as is the case with Banu Habib and the Khurramites)
Armenian Heavy Cavalry (25% of Byzantine army was at least of this ethnic stock, should be restricted to Armenia, Rum and Trebizond where Armenians are concentrated, i don;t believe they should trained by Islamic factions, exception is the Egyptians)
Trebizond Archers as light infantry (restrict them to Trebizond only???)

By putting restrictions we identify provincial soldiers over the Tagmata who are professional soldiers.

i have done some tweaking with the Byz cav forces namely the ByCav, Kata and Klib excludes Pronoia. Here are the Tagmatic cavalry forces

Byzantine Cavalry serve the role of Kataphraktois which is what they are historically, they are armed with a lance, bow and a sword, lance for charging, bow for skirmishing and a sword for the melee. This is the essential heavy cavalryman in the Byzantine army.

Kataphraktois replaced by Byzantine cavalry but represented the next level higher than the Byzantine cavalry, they are highly paid and are trained in Constantinople only as the heavy cavalry corps.

Klibanophori is the elite of the Tagmata corps (by the time it takes to train one we are well into the age of John Curcuas or Nicephorus Phocas whom this unit appears)
Trained by the central government and equipped by the central government they are expensive and small in number but superbly disciplined and trained to deliver the knockout blow in battle. Armed with a lance and mace, mace is preferred weapon of the Klibanophori for their shcok value.

There are four main Tagmatas but the inclusion of a separate Varangian unit makes it 5 essential Tagmatic forces.

Tagmatic forces are often mounted rather than foot infantry, foot infantry are often the capital garrison rather than field service.

The mobility and as you said offensive nature favours a cavalry mounted force, with the Byz cav, Kata and the Klib you have ur elite Tagmatic force.
They are delibrately expensive since the Byzantine were the most well paid of all armies. Restricting where they can trained only adds to their elite status.

I like a new title to be made called "Warrior Saint", a canonisation of an individual for outstandinf achievements in the field of religion and warfare. Living Saints were common as were dead military saints. I tried it once and inspired holy fear in the enemy. No joke.

Strategos for the large Asia Mnor themes (Nicaea, Anatolia and trebizond)

Ducates for frontier provinces like Rum, Antioch or Edessa or even Armenia

Catapan for Italian provinces

Strategos for European provinces

Ducates for the Aegean Islands

What do you think???

Gee where are Herac and Elwe when u need them?

Here are my thoughts on factions and their provinces

Kievan Rus (people of novgorod) Kiev
Bulgars (Polish) Bulgaria, Wallachia
Ommayad Emirate (Almohads) Cordoba, Castile, Granada and Morocco
Tulunids (Egyptians, autonomous from the Abbasid, the Abbasids are decentralising at this point so some semi-independent Arab foes might be good for generating warfare)
Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Jerusalem,
Eastern Franks (no HRE yet at this time) all german territories exluding bohemia, brandenburg.
Franks (french) All french territories except brittany but including Aragon province.
Asturias (Spanish) Leon only
Navarrese (Aragon)
Pope Rome only
Kingdom of Italy (Italians) Genoa, Milan, Tuscany, Papal States, Venice.
Magyars (Hungarians) Hungary Carpathia
Khazars (Turks) Khazar

Independent states:
Corsica
Sardinia

Arab Emirates:
Melitene (lesser armenia)
Armenia (armenia)
Crete (use the sicilians as the Cretan factions, if u do;t know how to transform factions I will do it)
Arabia (strongly independent)

Surrounding kingdoms
Iberia (georgia)

Neutral condominum between Abassids and Byzantines:
Cyprus

Kata i emailed you, your units looked good

Yeah, basically i am in agrreance with most of what you said, we will tie all the elite units to constantinople, and the "basic units" anywhere, and with regional troops tied to region.

So the next question is what unit(s) do we (meaning you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif ) need to make and/or adjust?

I am planning on using LK's Menavatoi & Psiloi units, both were part of the Tagmata armies, psiloi representing the light javelin forces and Menavatoi an elite spear shock unit to counter Kata cavalry, as well as the standard byzantine units made by CA. You are already working on Klib & Skutatoi from what you emailed me.

Do we need additional muslim units for 863? I really think we need some slavic infantry, as well as maybe some Rus. I could use some of LKs other units to fill in the gaps.

The question is, how many, if any units do you feel like making? and secondly, which ones should we focus on?

I suggest we tie the "warrior saint" title to the reliquary or something? what should the title confer if anything?

your titles sound good, im gonna read a section o titles tonight, but what you stated sounds good to go.

Also, we may have more unit options with VI, looks like different unit looks may be available to us. This would be great to represent the western frank (barbarians).

My thoughts on troops

Polish retainers as Bulgarian boyars

I have made SLavic troops, use my croatian and serbian brigands they are both fast, aggressive armed with bows and an axe, croatians hide in open as ambush units.

Hungarians are mainly horse archers, should I make a new hungarian horse archer?
they have a bonus for horse archers trained in hungary.

leave the Arabs as they are but make give them higher valour, higher attack but poor defence, they need to be more fanatical than professionally disciplined. They are fast on foot since they are unencumbered with armour

any thoughts on treasury, to reflect each factions financial strenght I customised each factions treasury.
eg. Arabs tend to be more wealthy than Western factions.

Can I make changes to Islamic cavalry, since archery is dominant in Islamic warfare giving the Khwarazmian cavalry bows would give us challenging enemies. I am thinking of adding bows to other cavalry units in the Islamic line up except for the Almohads.

Western factions to recieve a boost in defence to balance increased Islamic attack and the Byzantines higher valour for their discipline. everyone takes that for granted.

So a few generalisations;

Western factions
higher defense
Islamic factions
higher attack and fanaticsm
byzantine
higher production cost
higher valour

yeah regarding your differences sounds good - i have already modded my units stats similar to what you have stated (my muslim forces attack is beefed up, etc)

ok regarding new units then, might i suggest the following:

1) a slavic infantry - no or light armor, javelins for ranged attack, and spears for melee, fast, good charge and attack, but no defense armor, and poor morale - maybe let these hide like the croat and serb units you have made.

2) a Hungarian Horse archer, with chain mail, bow and sabre/spear would be great if you could do that?

3) could you make an early Varangian Unit? these would represent the early Rus warrios used by the empire, but before they were "decked out" with the great armor and stats of the Varabgian guard, these coupled with normal vikings would represent the viking forces commonly serving the empire?

what about some basic Frankish troops for the east & west franks and kingdom of italy? or should we just use the generic fuedal units already available? or maybe we wait on these and adapt some VI units?

also, have you seen LK's menavatoi unit? could you do something like that or mod it? it would really be nice to give the Menavlatoi a heavy javelin like they did in life?

I dont know how much work is involved in making or modding existing units, so i dont wanna bog you down with alot of work - so tell me to shout up when you have heard enuff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

For the Bulgarians and Hungarians I can use the Polish retainers, boyars, and lith cavalry - i can use most of the turk stuff for the Khazars

do you have MSN? perhaps we could get together and talk out some ideas and maybe if we can find the other 2 grecophiles we could form a big ole chat sometime?

yeah I got msn fuzzwuzznuzz@hotmail.com is the path to wisdom

herac and elwe get in here so we can get ur input.

Yo Galestrum have we agreed on the factions involved?????

I have compiled a list of units involved in this mod
If you adding more or are suggesting another tweak then copy and paste the existing list and write in the new entries as well as adding (proposed unit) beside it.

legend D = done I = in the making

Units tweaked :
Kataphraktoi (added bow) D
Khwarazmian Cavalry (added bow and axe) D
Byzantine Cavalry (added lance) D
Polish Retainer now a Bulgar Boyar D

New units made from scratch:
Klibanophori D
Magyar Horse Archers I
Slav light skirmishers I
Croatian Brigands D
Skutatoi D
Norman knight (proposed) no status
Arab corsair (proposed) no status

Units added to the Byzantines:
Turcoman Horsemen
Armenian Heavy Cavalry
Vikings

Units available
Urban Militia
Byzantine Infantry
Alan mercenary
Horse Archers
Spearmen
Naptha Throwers


Now we can keep up to date with unit changes, proposals etc.

I prefer the Vikings as the pre - Varangian Guards, Varangians did not appear till Basil's time, the Vikigns are perfect candidates of Rus mercenaries. Rus Vikings also were a product of mixed Slav and Rus descent so we can make a case that Vikings can represent both Slav and Rus peoples.

I think the West has too many units already, as well their miliary systems were simple and uncomplicated.

Any chance of making the Danes a pagan and searaiding people, man if I was playing the Danes I would love allthose longships to raid Western Europe. bring on the blood.

However since they did have a troop that threw axes called franciscas, I dunno if they still had in the 800's.
the files don;t allow me to make axe throwing troops, the image of a unit can be changed but it takes yonks and believe me yonks

I am in favour of making a Norman knight however with superior valour comapred to early royal knights

What do you think of an Arab Corsair, basically a light Arab cavalry with a lance, bow and excellent attack.
nah better not, too many Arab lightweights already.
Good for mountainous regions where their excellent horsemanship helps them in such terrain.

I am thinking of making a set of Heretics for the agents list:

Shia Imam
Nestorian priest
Monophysites Priest
Paulicians

can be built by muslims and christians alike to forment religious division in enemies territories hehe, now we have more agents to play with.

gimme a screenie of a menavlotoi and I'll see what I conjure up.

Hey Kata, Ive already started workin on the startpos. Here are the factions that I have decided upon, after doing a ton of research, although im still looking at possibly changing the timeline slightly, which may affect the addition/subtraction of a faction here and there.

Romans
Ommayad
Danish
Kingdom of Italy
East Franks
West Franks
Tulumids
Kievan Rus
Khazars
Pope
Bulgarian Khanate
Austurias
Raiding Arab Emirates
Magyars
Duchy of Croatia
Kingdom of Great Moravia

Now there may be some possible changes, I was thiking of making a "spanish marcher lord faction" which would include Austurias, Navarre, and Aragon. I did some cursory research, and most of it pointed that at this time these lands were somewhat uder the lordship of the Franks, but distinct enough to be there own kind of thing. So i could make a "marcher lord" faction OR Make Austurias one faction and give Navarre and Aragon to the West Franks.

Also if i go a lil bit in future time, say to the 880s, I can make Burgundy a faction - consisting of Burgundy & Provence.

I have adjusted every faction listed to their appropriate culture already & most of the Pagan factions were given the barbarian raider AI behavior, so there should be lots of rampaging hordes hopefully http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

I made a "generic" arab raiding emirate faction, for gameplay reasons, consisting of : Sicily, Crete, cyprus, armenia, lesser armenia, antioch, edessa, and parts of N Africa.

My reasoning for this faction, is that while they were all pretty much independent emirates, they had a similar goal, to raid and attack christian lands aggressively and were basically the front line of the war. Now if we had the ability to have more than 20 factions, Id have made more distinction, but being as i am limited, I have lumped them together. It does give the bonus of giving this faction some umph and should provide anyone taking them on some large degree of hardship http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

I think the Arab Corsair sounds cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Regarding the Norman Knight, I gave Feudal Knights +1 valour in Normandy already in my mods

Are the Slav light skirmishers my idea of slavic infantry with spears and javelins?

I think the new agents sound good, i didnt know you could make new ones good deal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

I think we should make some new Byzantine agent units that have some ability to help make up for the lack of jihad and crusade.

Also, with VI i get the feeling we will be able to create new untis not createable now, and can add some of the VI units to this mod.

Id like to bascially get the Beta of this done soon as we can, and then with LKs new units, your new units, and the possibility of VI, we can do a very good series of various Dark Ages campaigns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Im also working on a crusader on updating the crusader11 file, as soon as you link me to your unit mods, and i can d/l them, ill update my crusader11 and then send it to you along with my other files and we can start testing it out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

How do i make a screenie? hehe *blush*

when you tell me, ill take one, with some descriptions, and ill also take a screenie of the campaign screen for you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

I am in utter awe of you two. Please keep working. So far what you have said seems to be very historically accurate and I don't feel I can legitimately challenge you on any one issue.

I agree with Heraclius... your efforts have left me dumbfounded Unfortunately, I cannot add to the secifics of late Roman military units, as I am yet to find a book that gives any details of the exact compositions of their military makeup http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif. The books I've read so far only deal with the general history (Norwich) or the tactics used. Still searching for a good book on the actual make-up of their military.

Everything is looking awesome, though Keep up the good work, I can't wait to play

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/wacko.gif

hey u guys want to be guinea pigs, i will release mods quite regularly for this campaign mod, send me ur e- mail and you'll get a nice surprise. no not the latest kataphraktoi virus but 3 new units, thats right 3 NEW untis.

Magyar Cavalry:
Magyar elite mounted unit armoured in mail, carries a lance, sword and bow, fast as well.

Though I got to warn you it has the same stats as the Boyar, i have not changed it yet, so I expect u guys to change it and see what u think are good stats for it ok????

Arab Corsair (Warband)
These fellas are exclusive to the Arab Emirates, basically they are lightly armoured raiders with only a sword and shield but have a ferocious attack, plus they are fanatical as well, any armoured troop can expect a real fight.

note: sword only appears when charging and fighting, we can pretend the corsair unsheaths his sword for the real fight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Patriarch(demo)
It works, I made a new agent, the Patriarch has far ranging abilities to covnert people to orthodoxy and improve zeal for whatever benefit the Byzantines might gget from it....anyway the appearance of the Patriarch in the campaign map is only a beta, in the MTW files there are agents which haven;t been used, so I will use one of their appearances for the Patriarch.

I've PM'd you, Kataphraktoi.. I'll be a guinea-pig http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Cheers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/wacko.gif

I tried to PM you, kat, but it said that your messenger was full and unable to recieve new messages. I will periodically try to get it through though. Yes I would be willing to be your guinea pig although I do have one question I asked in the PM