Changing the MTW "Campaign Map"

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12-23-2002, 23:17
Wellington

One Simple Question.

Q: Has anyone so far managed to create a new MTW "Campaign Map" thats WORKS - I say again WORKS - in MTW.

I'd also like to see this cracked - at last. So where the hell are we on this? I suspect nowhere.

(Please, no "I have created a very pretty campaign map that represents Blah, Blah Blah" - we can all do that - and no "I've got this far and changed such and such a file, but it still does'nt work" - as commendable as that is).

I'm not interested in what anyone can create, or what anyone has changed - only what anyone has created/changed and SUCESSFULLY INCORPORATED INTO MTW.

No unsubstantiated opinions please - just the facts - have all the problems been cracked or not?
12-24-2002, 04:55
Lion King

i can see you are in a very bad mood today http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif
[Kiddy voice]But look, i created a very beautiful map of the middle earth, i edited the lukmap and the maptex but something goes wrong everytime, i am sure i am close to it[/kiddy voice]http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

it has been pulled out unless i am too tired to read or someone is a liar. look around in this forum, somene (barocca? i a not sure) did it with a few provinces, and this person asked LK which other maps should be changed (minimaps) to make it complete. lurk around and you shall find the answer
12-24-2002, 04:58
Lion King

yup, found the Post. It was barocca, he got it working further than anyone else so far, but not quite 100%..
12-24-2002, 09:02
Whitey

Don't worry Wellington, it is a big job, so don't expect things to get done quickly...

when you have finished the lukmap and tga map, it is then that the work begins...

the fact is that when building from scratch, you can not test properly until it is finished...the game will run without border attributes, but will crash at the first sign of battle...one simply has to finish before you can know yes or no,

on the brighter side - the game will work for the first few turns at least with a new lukmap, tga, province borders, origins, castles, ports, etc...

as far as that, it works - but the final proof will be in the biggest section of the startpos text files...the province border attributes file - and if doing the origins, castles, ports and borders takes quite a few hours hours solid work on a big new map, then setting the border attributes seems to be taking as long as everything else put together
12-24-2002, 12:25
Alrowan

eh.. thanks for that reasurance... makes the prospect of making a new map seem almost daunting

what would be nice if someone made a program with which to make maps with... at least make things easier, so you can click exactly where a caslte goes, or outside click to set the borders....

anyway im dreaming again arent i? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
12-24-2002, 14:10
Whitey

don't mean to put anyone off Alrowan, but before one starts one should know that it is a very big job...
12-24-2002, 14:52
NagatsukaShumi

Yes, the clarify, it's a VERY big job and not to be taken lightly.
12-24-2002, 15:35
Alrowan

actually, im not taking it lightly, just think i may need some help to ever get this thing finished. Right now i have figured out how to do borders relatvly well for the lukemap, and that side of the process is just about done. Then begins the tough work like you said.

i am one of those people that prefers to jump right into the deep end of things, so when my campagin map is eventually available, it will be as accurate as possible, and not some half arsed job. Im sure a lot of people will apreciate it, so heres hoping its all worth it, and if its only me working on it, expect it to be done in a month from now... that is unless i find shortcuts.

ive got a lot of free time as im off uni for the summer, so i have holidays till march
12-24-2002, 17:05
Wellington

Great Guys,

You've told me most of what I want to know.

Lion King - The run up to Xmas always amends my mood/attitude http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif ... the relentless shopping, the endless queues, the abominable traffic, the frustration associated with being an Englishman residing in The Netherlands and not being able to get everything you want, the disappointment in realising M&S have vacated continental Europe, the worry of not knowing whether your presents are brilliant/merely suitable/a bit questionable or just absolutely ridiculous, the panic in receiving a Xmas card from someone you hav'nt sent one to and therefore having to dispatch another ASAP, the stress of knowing you'll have to open presents on the 25th and pretend (in association with suitable facial expressions) that the contents are something you always wanted to have ... sigh, is it all worth the hassle?

Still, bear with me .... my mood generally improves after the 24th http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Whitey - Brilliant Thanks for downloading your image in another thread. This tells me a lot.

Let me get my thoughts in order and I'll post a few questions. For now let me just ask the following (bear in mind I'm a novice in this area of "Campaign Maps") -

Q1: Are all 4 images -
- MapTex.tga
- MapTex2.tga
- LukMap.lbm
- LukMap2.lbm
in the folder "\Textures\campmap" used in MTW?

Q2: If you create new MapTex/LukMap images do they have to be the same size (height and width) as the originals?

Q3: Am I correct in assuming that other than these 4 files the only other requirements are providing a suitable/correct Early.txt type file with the correct SetNeighbours::/SetBorderInfo::/SetCastle::/SetOrigin::/SetPort::/SetAttributes:: (etc) parameters that pertain to the new MapTex/LukMap stuff?

Q4: Which areas, in the opinions of you guys who have attempted such a mammoth task, are most time-consuming?

Q5: Which areas, again in the opinions of you guys who have attempted this, are still "unknown"?

These are just basic questions. I have more, but any other questions will depend on the replies to the above 5.

Why am I asking all this? Well, I always suspected this would be a difficult area to modify but (considering it's such an important area and would open up the game considerably) I'm trying to ascertain what/which time-consuming processess are suitable for automating via a utility.

Three final questions for Whitey -

Q6: Am I correct in assuming your major problem at present is related to providing correct 'SetBorder::' parameters?

Q7: Have you experienced any problems/frustrations in using the MTW internal identifiers for land and water areas (eg: ID_SCOTLAND, ID_BLACK_SEA ect) to represent your "new" areas on your new LOTR map?

Q8: Have you used exactly the same RGB colours in your new LukMap/LukMap2 as the original ones?

Thanks again, you guys, for enlightening me in this area
12-24-2002, 18:14
Whitey

OK - I'll do what I can

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Q1: Are all 4 images -
- MapTex.tga
- MapTex2.tga
- LukMap.lbm
- LukMap2.lbm
in the folder "\Textures\campmap" used in MTW?

yes, and no...

when the computer is in 'high-res' mode the lukmap2 and maptex2 files are used, I believe this is when the computer has 256mb of ram or more...otherwhise the smaller images are used

(thanks to Mithil and PanthaPower for this - they found it out)

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Q3: Am I correct in assuming that other than these 4 files the only other requirements are providing a suitable/correct Early.txt type file with the correct SetNeighbours::/SetBorderInfo::/SetCastle::/SetOrigin::/SetPort::/SetAttributes:: (etc) parameters that pertain to the new MapTex/LukMap stuff?

yes. That is if you don't start playing with units, factions, cultures or religions of course http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
Q4: Which areas, in the opinions of you guys who have attempted such a mammoth task, are most time-consuming?

probably the border attributes takes most time, but sorting out the setneighbours list is really nasty too...

at least when one is working on maps you can see what you are doing and what progress you are making http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
Q5: Which areas, again in the opinions of you guys who have attempted this, are still "unknown"?

AI behavour in new maps

whether it is finally possible to remove the pope

whether maps which use less than the maximum provinces still get rebellions in spare province slots which are not used, and if so - whether the game falls over because of it.

one or two more, like what the smallest possible (in terms of province numbers) map is

oh - missed the final questions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Q6 - yes, so far. When that is finished, then we can begin searching for bugs and problems...it looks like the pope will be a real issue

Q7 - no

Q8 - no, except in the minimap bifs, which require the exact RGB values...
12-25-2002, 10:27
USMCNJ

i first tried to do this bs in september (and gave up), now for the last week i've been at it again.

The campaign can't run on my laptop(the DirectX thing) so at work i have plenty of time to play with files.

so for q3)
Medieval - Total War\frontend_files\FactionSelect_menu\factions map lukup.bif

this is the file lukMap of the faction select menu

Medieval - Total War\frontend_files\FactionSelect_menu\factions map.bif

this is the maptex of the faction select menu

Now i have a couple qestion.

I'm taking baby steps, at this point i'm creating a map that is the same Europe but i have rivers. I added all the text in the startops file. And two things are happening
1) the Rhine is working, i can put a ship in there. and it all looks great, then by next turn the ship is no more. I've looked for it everywhere, it is nowere on the map or in my records. Does anyone know what happened. Or do i have a Bermita triangle in the middle of Europe?
2)(i only installed the patch last week, so i'm not to sure if this is caused by it) If i build a stage two ship(Cog or better) they have the abilitty to jumb over a sea area. Is this a patch thing or is there something wrong with my map.
3)And a really stupid qestion, how do you put a port were you want it?

Thanks, merry Christmas
12-25-2002, 11:04
Kraellin

not sure why yer losing your ship. could be you're missing something in the lukmap, maybe? if you altered the lukmap to include more than 40 sea zones, this might do it too. the limit is 40 sea zones and 100 land zones. not real sure. just guessing here as to why the ship would go poof.

yes, some ships can move two sea zones at once.

you set the port positions in the early, high, and late.txt files in the startpos directory. setport:: etc.
look the file over and you'll see the coordinates thing in there. then read some of the other posts in here and how to determine the coordinates correctly.

K.
12-25-2002, 14:11
Alrowan

well for my map ive used all the same RGB values on the lukmap, now im just about done there im going to make a rough Maptext, then move onto the nitty gritty

there its another file one needs to edit, and thats the minimap ones... in the BIF areas somewhere
12-25-2002, 17:59
NagatsukaShumi

To Q2, nope, the new maps can be smaller, larger or the same size, doesn't matter as long as you get everything else right. Anyways, I've been messing around with it more recently, soon I may be able to give you some information about re-making it all.
12-29-2002, 14:29
Wellington

Ok,

I've written something (a quick utility) that appears to work ok in creating Lukmaps - based on a user provided map image that has defined borders. I wo'nt go into specifics at this point but I'm looking for anyone who's willing to test/advise/comment on this.

Perfect requirements for such persons would be -
- a little basic programming knowledge
- some knowledge about Lukmaps/campaign maps/Early.text etc
- willingness

Any offers of assistance? If so, I'd E-mail the current 'Beta' version of this utility and we can then swop ideas around in an attempt to progress it.

Thanks in advance.
12-29-2002, 15:17
Alrowan

well i find psp7 the best for making lukmaps

heres a simple guide (very simple)

general shape
1.get your chosen map, and size it accordingly.
2.make the sea regions one colour, land the other

land borders
3.use the magic wand tool and select all your land bits
4.expand the selected area by 3 pixels
5.fill in the expanded area the pink colour
6.contract the selected area 3 pixels, and shade another colour

prvoience/sea regions
7.using the pallete of the original map, shade yours accordingly... be creative
8.double check that all spaces are filled

borders for land regions
9.use magic wand tool
10.contract selected area 1 pixel
11.fill seleceted area with border colour
12.contract area by 3 pixels
13.fill with provience colour

borders for sea
14.lne all borders with pink, 6 pixels wide between sea regions, and 3pixels for edge of map (dont forget)

there you go, a very simple version of making new lukmaps.. give yourself a few hours though
12-29-2002, 15:42
PanthaPower

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Dec. 29 2002,07:29)]Ok,

I've written something (a quick utility) that appears to work ok in creating Lukmaps - based on a user provided map image that has defined borders. I wo'nt go into specifics at this point but I'm looking for anyone who's willing to test/advise/comment on this.

Perfect requirements for such persons would be -
- a little basic programming knowledge
- some knowledge about Lukmaps/campaign maps/Early.text etc
- willingness

Any offers of assistance? If so, I'd E-mail the current 'Beta' version of this utility and we can then swop ideas around in an attempt to progress it.

Thanks in advance.

Wellington,

I meet your requirements (very basic programming language though) so could you send your utilty to ArjanvanPanhuis@hotmail.com. If it's more then 300kb, please send it to apanhuis@cgey.nl

I'm currently in the first stage of drawing borders on a very detailed new LukMap (provinces are already drawn) so I can test your utility.
12-29-2002, 15:57
PanthaPower

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Alrowan @ Dec. 29 2002,08:17)]well i find psp7 the best for making lukmaps

heres a simple guide (very simple)

general shape
1.get your chosen map, and size it accordingly.
2.make the sea regions one colour, land the other

land borders
3.use the magic wand tool and select all your land bits
4.expand the selected area by 3 pixels
5.fill in the expanded area the pink colour
6.contract the selected area 3 pixels, and shade another colour

prvoience/sea regions
7.using the pallete of the original map, shade yours accordingly... be creative
8.double check that all spaces are filled

borders for land regions
9.use magic wand tool
10.contract selected area 1 pixel
11.fill seleceted area with border colour
12.contract area by 3 pixels
13.fill with provience colour

borders for sea
14.lne all borders with pink, 6 pixels wide between sea regions, and 3pixels for edge of map (dont forget)

there you go, a very simple version of making new lukmaps.. give yourself a few hours though

Alrowan,

shrinking and expanding using the magic wand function did not work too much for me because my LukMap is very detailed (lukmap folows river edges, mountain edges, etc). If I shrink or expand for making borders it also overlaps the main colours on some parts. Your trick only works for me in provinces with basic borders.
12-30-2002, 04:08
Alrowan

ok, firstly, the lukmap is meant to be only simple.. the outline of your regions, if it had mountains and such, then of course it wont work. remeber that the lukmap is not the presentable side of your campagin map, so it only needs to look similar in style to the original. I think i might post my lukmap that ive made for people to take a peek at.
01-09-2003, 03:29
Wellington

Bump

Pantherpower - my apologies I was going to release a provisional version of this utility (LukMapMaker) before many days ago - then I ran into several programming probalems that I did'nt anticipate and also had the New Year to contend with.

I'm posting a very provisional (as yet uncompleted - but quite usable) initial version of LukMapMaker to "The Org's" test download section.

I'm still struggling to work out some issues inherent in the various 'additional' maps required for anyone writing a new MTW campaign map(s) (MapTex.tga and MapTex2.tga).

A second post will follow this one (tomorrow) detailing the initial components and basic instructions.

Hopefully you'll be pleasently surprised by the potential offered by LukMapMaker (even if it's not all there yet&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
01-09-2003, 16:33
PanthaPower

Quote:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Jan. 09 2003,02:29)]Bump

Pantherpower - my apologies I was going to release a provisional version of this utility (LukMapMaker) before many days ago - then I ran into several programming probalems that I did'nt anticipate and also had the New Year to contend with.

I'm posting a very provisional (as yet uncompleted - but quite usable) initial version of LukMapMaker to "The Org's" test download section.

I'm still struggling to work out some issues inherent in the various 'additional' maps required for anyone writing a new MTW campaign map(s) (MapTex.tga and MapTex2.tga).

A second post will follow this one (tomorrow) detailing the initial components and basic instructions.

Hopefully you'll be pleasently surprised by the potential offered by LukMapMaker (even if it's not all there yet&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Wellington,

thanks for uploading it. I tried to find it in the Org but I cannot find it yet. I will try to have a look later. I'm quite curious how it works an what it does.

Well, to keep you updated on the mapmaking, Whitey and myself are (hopefully) very close to finishing our working campaign map. My LukMap has also been improved since the last time I wrote here and it now looks like this:
http://www.motor-forum.nl/forum/misc/10842/lukmap.jpg
As you can see all sea borders are correct, all provinces are very detailed and the only thing still missing is 75% of the province borders. MapTex2.tga is 98% finished. Text files are hopefully finished soon. I have a little hope that the test planned for this evening or tomorrow will make things work. If it works, I'll let you know.
01-09-2003, 23:12
Wellington

Hi Guys,

LukMapMaker is now on the Org's test downloads. It's named "TEST_LukMapMaker_PROVISIONAL_VERSION.zip" and is around 150K. It contains the code/source, the required files and directory structure and a very small (for download considerations) test map called 'Islands'.

You also have to download "TEST_LukMapMaker_GUI_OCX" (22K). I missed this in the original download

IMPORTANT: Please read the "Installation Instructions" 1st. Then read the "FAQ". Then run LukMapMaker on the simple test map ('Islands&#39http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif. Then read the "Readme". It will make far more sense if you do it this way

This a PROVISIONAL version. I'm currently spending 100% of my free time finishing it so expect another version in a week or two.

Two other (larger) test maps have been uploaded -
- "TEST_LukMapMaker_EXAMPLE_Britain.zip" (500K)
- "TEST_LukMapMaker_EXAMPLE_WestMed.zip" (1.3 Meg)

I STRONGLY recommend you download these 2 examples, include them in the correct folder and run them. They contain better examples of LukMapMaker functionality that is'nt in the 'Islands' example.

Note that LukMapMaker does A LOT of processing and is VERY CPU intensive. Therefore it can take some time to run (depending on how big your campaign map is). On my PC (1600 P4) the example maps take the following times to run -

Islands - 30 seconds
Britain - 3 minutes
WestMed - 9 minutes

I also did a copy of the MTW campaign map and ran LukMapMaker on it. This took 40 minutes You have been warned

Give it a try, see what's it's trying to do and feed any questions/ideas/comments back via the Org.

I have a few more questions regarding this whole area but for now just 1 -

Q1: Can anyone provide me with a document detailing the format of an MTW LBM file (specifically the LukMap's LBM file type format). Ok, I know it's an IFF-type but there are several different LBM formats. If anyone knows this for sure it will save me a lot of time playing around with a Hex editor ... Sigh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif

Welly.
01-14-2003, 15:57
barocca

this topic is continued in the thread
"Automatic LukMap & Script creator, AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD, by Wellington"
I am closing this topic only for that reason, no point us all trying to follow 2 threads on this,
I am pinning it because this will quite likely become part of a guide or faq at some stage, if any of you ever decide to write one, or if i ever remember to get some ink for my old B&W printer (can't seem to get these pages to print B&W only on TNG's printer)