Actual range of...

I looked up for the missile values and can tell that longbows have only small advantage in range compared to normal archers, which is historically very wrong; while standard bows could be effective and kill on distance up to some 90 meters (100 yards) the longbows made their kills up to more than 350 m (around 400 yards), their steel arrows piercing armor without much trouble. I am changing that and experimenting, for the sake of the game balance. I also know that the arquebusiers and muskets killed effectively in some 100-125 meters distance, but I was wondering what was the actual range of early ballistae, catapults, trebuchets, culverins, canons and mortars et cetera, so I could determine a proper ratio between those different units.

If you want to give missile weapons their actual range, I think you should also take into consideration the sizes of battlefields we have in this game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/dizzy.gif

I thought of that.

The trebuchets and cannons have far too small range, IMHO, but I would like to know what actual range they've had so I could increase their ingame range accordingly.

I just hoped that some of our more esteemed fellow knights, being well informed about that period had those facts somewhere and spare me the encumbering search…

Well, that is a tough question, because there is a great degree of discussion around it.

Regarding LB, even today, some experiences made to reproduce range and armour-piercing power, are quite unconclusive.
I had a talk in another thread with dunnichen that discusses some of these new experiences:

Archers Underpowered in MTW

Relating to Mangonels and Trebuchets, I believe you're right. I do not have historical information to corroborate but, they shouldn't have a similar range to catapults.
The range should be longer, because these engines were much more powerfull and had a longer projection arm than catapults.

Since in MTW Catapult Range = Trebuchet Range = Mangonel Range = 12000 units and 5000 units = 100m, we can see that their range is effectivelly:

12000 units = 240 meters

Quite short, don't you think? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif

I think for trebuchets and mangonels the distance should be between 15000 units = 300 meters and 20000 = 400 meters.

And this only because the maps aren't that big...

Of course, someone else might disagree.

Lord Aymar, I've been participating in "Archers underpowered", this one is more "all artillery underpowered" thread…

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Since in MTW Catapult Range = Trebuchet Range = Mangonel Range = 12000 units and 5000 units = 100m, we can see that their range is effectivelly:

12000 units = 240 meters

Quite short, don't you think?

I think for trebuchets and mangonels the distance should be between 15000 units = 300 meters and 20000 = 400 meters.

And this only because the maps aren't that big...

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Too short, in my opinion…

The guns never had a great range, in any M:TW era and afterwards, some 100 meters of actual effectiveness isn't much, but the catapults, trebuchets and mangonels should be much better and have a greater range, by all means…

I'm altering this for my M:TW inhouse mod, and I was just searching for the real firing distances to have some basis to start my modifications on…

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Of course, someone else might disagree.

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That's the lovely part of democracy and freedom of speech…
Someone will always disagree…

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I'm altering this for my M:TW inhouse mod, and I was just searching for the real firing distances to have some basis to start my modifications on…

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Sorry for beeing unable to assist you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]That's the lovely part of democracy and freedom of speech…
Someone will always disagree…

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Yeap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Dec. 28 2003,18:44)]Sorry for beeing unable to assist you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif

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Don't grow gray hair on this, I'll dig it out eventually, one way or another…

Voigtkampf

Try here

http://historymedren.about.com/gi....rty.htm

I don't know if it's got everything but it might help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

Thanks, Ja'chyra

I'll go scope through those pages and their links, I've already found one interesting piece of info…

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]It took another six months, with two carpenters and a blacksmith, to finally construct a fully operational trébuchet in 1987. When finished it repeatedly and successfully hurled projectiles weighing 56 kg over a distance of 212 meters. Many of the shots landed exactly in the same spot, confirming the power of this formidable medieval, non-gunpowder artillery weapon.

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Now, though this is a replica of a trebuchet made as a test to see how it worked in medieval times, I believe it was near the actual range, for the expressed weight…

If I find out more, I'll post it here…

Once again, thanx,Ja'chyra