Moving to the desert

I'm nearing the end of my first campaign since I returned to M:TW, playing English, Early, Normal. It's 1340ish and I've passed 60% domination (I'm not a very quick mover). Barring a few provinces like the Danes, I control everything north of the Mediterranean with hefty armies of pav arbs, mercian billmen, chiv sargeants and a mixture of cavalry. Everyone has max armour and weapon upgrades.

Now I have to move into the desert to crush the Egyptians and Almohads, so I need lighter armour. Do I destroy the armourers in my established troop producing provinces or develop new desert troop training centers? Do I switch to completely different troop types? I'm only really any good at catholic tactics - lots of beefy troops crawling across the battlefield - and I tend to fall apart if I try clever hit-and-run tactics.

At the moment, I think I'm going to try using the same mix of troops that I'm used to, but with no extra armour. And lighter horsemen. But I'm open to suggestions.

I'd use some PavArbs, Light Cavs (so Hobilars and probably a LOT of mercenary HA). To fight with Islamic factions in the desert I very often use hordes of mercenary muslim troops. I think that PavArbs should form the core of such forces. It makes no sense to get any knights or any other heavy cavs, just some good spear infantry as a backup for all those missile units, and I think that plus some decent general (at this point you must have many) and i think that'd do.

Regards,
EC

armour upgrades don't affect them in that respect.
it doesn't make the troops any heavier armoured.
just their armour is of better quality.

also i would suggest lighter cavalry.
hungarian Szekely are great not only are they light enough to fight in the desert but they are also good at fighting on a flank and put up a good fight in melee as well as shoot everything to pieces.

steppe cav are good for flank charges.
turcopoles are good when you get there.
i reckon just pin the enemy using spears and flank them with steppe cav and pound them with arrows from either longbows or pav arbs.

longbows would be preferable.
don't let them fire until the enemy is pinned.

thanks, dessa

some desert test results i posted over at .com a while back:

Desert and Armor:

Ran a quick test to confirm the desert/armor rule of thumb. Basically 0/1 armor upgrade units lasted the longest just standing around on a desert map, that includes highlanders. Here's a grading of best to worst in my tests:

1) MtdS +0, HC +1, HC +0
2) RK +0, MtdS +1, FFK +0, HC +2
3) ERK +1, MtdS +2, FFK +1, HC +3
4) ERK +2, FFK +2, MtdS +3
5) ERK +3, FFK +3

(** note: those in each group fatigued at the same moment)

ERK = Early Royal Knights: armor 4 (add +1 for shield)
FFK = feudal foot knights: armor 3 (add +2 for shield)
MtdS = Mounted Sergeants: armor 2 (add +1 for shield)
HC = highland clansmen: armor 1 (add +1 for shield)

I'd recommend going with 0/+1 armor mounted sgts and +1/+2 highlanders for the core of your desert army. Any heavier cav/foot troops should only have 0/+1 armor upgrades if you don't want them to melt in the heat. Obviously, if you're fighting small enemy armies in the desert (16 or so units), heavy armor becomes less of a factor since the battles won't last that long hopefully.

Highland clansmen, feudal sergeants, mounted sergeants and archers (leave the longbows at home, unless you have cash to burn) will handle any AI-controlled Muslim army, especially if you build them with full weapon/morale upgrades.

You might also want to keep a couple of feudal men at arms handy, but do try to rest them when they get too fatigued. They won't be able to engage the enemy for the full duration of the battle, rather you'll need to rest them periodically. But they're useful as a reserve and specialist element because they can outfight pretty much anything the Muslims can throw at them while they do have some strength left in them.

I recommend no armour upgrades at all, but morale and weapon if you can get them. Every point of armour is a hit to fatigue loss and recovery (and past a certain point, I believe it's 5 or 6 armour, you can't ever gain fatigue from resting - rather with these guys you just constantly lose fatigue - faster if you do anything other than stand around).

no knights for the desert except as last resort since they are mostly charge and recharge and often you can get at most three good charges out of them in the heat

I typically go inf heavy in the desert with some feudal sarges holding the line and mountains of red faced clansmen and gallows ripping around the flanks. vanilla archers are great also. genoese sailors are fine in the heat too

kerns are good too.

slavic and celtic units all seem quite capable of working in the heat.

if short battle with enemy having at most 1.5 waves, then armored boys like FMAA and knights could do well just by raw overpowering the enemy immediately and routing them before you fatigue too much.

Amour up to 2 is able to regain energy to quite tired. Amour of 3 and above suffers from higher rate of exhaustion and unable to recover beyond very tired. Anything above 6 rapidly subcumbs to heat exhaustion and would there after be in a permanent state of exhaustion and unable to recover any further.

I personally use urbies with weps upgrades instead of gallowglasses or highland clansmen. Feudal sgts and mounted sergeants are nice. Spanish Jinetes would be very good as well.

Paivse arbs would tire very quickly in the desert and not suited for large battles or attacks.

Billmen (without armour upgrades) would serve well.

I've had excellent results with highland clansmen and gallowglasses against Muslim infantry units in the desert. I perfer clansmen as they are fast enough to run down most archer units although they won't last long if they get isolated and charged by cavalry. Take some kerns along as well for the heavier muslim infantry units. Billmen are still my favourite melee unit in the desert as they don't have as much armour as halbardiers.

For foot archers, don't bother making any allowances for the terrain. I keep with my longbowmen/pavise arlabesters combination. Just don't expect much from them in a melee.

Heavy cavalry is only really good for when you want to smash into the enemy relatively early in a battle (ie before they all collapse from heatstroke). If you want to fight defensively use mounted archers for harrying and light cavalry such as hobilars for counterattacking and dealing with isolated groups of archers.

If you have lots of money, hire lots of muslim mercenary cavalry units and have them bear the brunt of fighting the enemy cavalry so the payroll doesn't get too excessive.

English desert troops include the Kerns, Gallowglasses, Clansmen, Longbows, and Hobilars.

Build inns as you move across the north of Africa to try to get good Muslim or Byz Mercs. Vikings and some European archers (Genoese) and cav archers can also do well.

I think that FMAA with no armor upgrades can do OK in the desert if you use them correctly.

Bribe a Muslim army or two - then turn them on the next province

Crusade Crusade Crusade Fanatics make remarkably good desert troops when used in large numbers

ichi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 05 2004,10:06)]no knights for the desert except as last resort since they are mostly charge and recharge and often you can get at most three good charges out of them in the heat

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If you do use knights, make sure that they're on your initial army, as any knights you get as reinforcements will already be tired when they get to the battle and have only 1 charge in them.

I actually use 3-4 knights in the desert (feudals will last just a little bit longer) if I think I can rout the enemy instantly with one or two charges after softening enemy ranks with arrow fire and engaging his spears will feud sarges and/or light swords. It's a bit risky but works pretty well