New to the game, some assistance please

Ok, just quit a MMORPG that I played for 5 years and picked up MTW (getting back to my roots in strategy games). I'm on my second campaign (trying to learn the game so I'm playing back to back single player early campaigns on hard setting as different factions, first as the Danes, hence the board name, and now the Elmos). I have been lurking here for about a month as a visitor and picked up some usefull information, thank you.

That said, while I'm doing very well at micromanaging provinces and developing economies and technology, I still have some weak spots I need to iron out. I appologise in advance if these are common questions, I have yet to see specific answers and search seems to be disabled for new users.

1) https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...ns/gc-help.gif In dessert warfare I have SERIOUS issues winning fights with any decisive margin of victory (I usually win with 1.5:1 kill ratios which seems poor for me, in normal fights in less arid climates I am used to winning with a 3:1 kill ratio). I have had to win 2 of 3 big fights where I was outnumbered simply by winning on the time expiring while I defended (I sent skirmishing units off to opposite corners of the map during sandstorms when my strongpoint was being overrun and it apparently confuses the AI - cheesy). I am playing the Elmos and fighting the Eggys (I assume that is board lingo for Egyptians). All my units are superior from a tech perspective and none are armoured (except my generals who I withdraw at the start to bring in saharan cav or ghazi units). My typical desert defense tactics are create a strong point next to the edge of the map for quick reinforcement and send out skirmishing units (Faris, MFS, Saharan Cav) into the enemy's rear to disrupt reinforcements, peel off and kite tougher slow units or chase/trap routers. Still, their sacaren infantry and AHC (armenian heavy cav) rip my pinning units to shreds (Nubians and MFS). My archers (set in 2 concentric raised circles) are doing almost as much damage to me as my foe. I always beat off the first wave, but I ALWAYS seem to get overrun when outnumbered 2:1 overall. Any advice is appreciated.

2) The Eggys have 2 boats that run all over the place, never engaging my navy (I have 3 ships in almost every spot) and almost always escaping me when I engage them. It's insane how my 2 star commanders with 2-3 ships in the fleet lose 2 ships to a single Eggy ship of the same class/type with a 1-2 star commander so consistantly. Anyway, everytime they end up in a sea region where I have a port, that province's loyalty drops 85-150% and I sometimes get rebellions. It's frustrating putting out fires all over the place fighting those lucky cowards. Any advice (already dropped taxation to very low and put religious guys and religious govs in all effected port provinces)?

3) organ guns ... they are almost ALWAYS available in the mercenary window, but are seemingly useless in all siege scenarios due to what looks like limited range. Can someone cough up some details on these units and their strengths please?

4) In VI 2.1, what good are spies and what are the best strategic agents usable by muslim factions? So far, emissaries (I paid for a few victories by buying the provinces and have also bought out armies) and assassins have been very usefull in creating diversions and even eliminating a re-emerged faction.

5) I read elsewhere that the number of troops in a province during a rebellion dictates the number of rebels that appear. While I have found this rule almost totally foolproof, there was one exception in Portugal. I had 2.75 units of peasants there and only one unit of rebel archers appeared (my province was blockaded by a single eggy ship that I promptly sunk). I had converted that province to 100% muslim and had a very pious gov. I figure that had something to do with it. Any hints?

6) Looking for any hints to help me get to a consistant 5:1 kill ratio, especially on attack.

I love this game, it's so incredibly complex and simple to control. The real time combat engine combined with the turn-based engine is pure genious. I loved the well written guide on this board for building economies, absolutely fantastic stuff. This is the first single player game to keep me this interested for more than 2 weeks since I played Harpoon on my 486. I only wish I had known about it sooner.

Yes, it's an amazing game, isn't it?

I would not worry too much about getting a 5:1 kill ratio. If you can do that, the game will probably seem unchallenging to you (and you are probably exploiting the AI's flaws a lot).

On the desert issue, I am not sure you are right to abjure armoured troops. AUM are the main (only?) strength of the Almohads. Armour is a really big deal in this game - I think chain mail raises your defence by around 4 points (equivalent to something like an 80% improvement in power). The Saracens have that, while the Armenians are not far off. AUM are even better armoured. Yes, armoured units will tire in the desert but they should hold out long enough to win the first encounter which is often decisive as it leads to a mass rout and loss/exit of the general. I would bring some AUMs (pref. with the +1 valour bonus) to slaughter the Saracens, stick your Nubians in front of the Armenians and focus all your ranged fire on them.

To kill annoying boats, it is often best to split up your fleets. Eg 3 attempts to kill one boat at 1:1 is often better than 1 attempt at 3:1 (because boats are so hard to catch).

splitting up boats is good.


organ guns are very short range antipersonnel weapons.

they act like a machine gun.

lure an enemy unit into their range and their shots should take out half the unit. it also goes through armor like butter so bye bye jedi cav.

the key is that friendly fire with those things is nasty as I've taken out half my unit and half their unit with a single shot and both start routing. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...ons/tongue.gif


the rebellion stuff is also partially based on troops quality so don't be surprised at only archers to face your peasants.

note that the rebellion type also may have something to do with it.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Simon, Thanks for the desert warfare advice. I'll keep a couple Granada born AUM units behind my spear and advance them on sacaren infantry and withdraw them for fresh troops after round 1. I had problems earlier on and I found my wins improved when I pulled all my armoured units to Europe. That said, I seem to have hit a wall without any armour. Thanks.

Good advice on splitting fleets. Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

I do use every opening and weakness my enemy shows me. Some of these are obviously AI issues. So far I find the scattering of forces during a rout is one way to confound the AI, but I've only had to use that twice and I was suprised that it worked, I was origionally trying to figure out a way for my enemy to chase after Faris units to weaken stronger units and peel off units that were over running my strong point. I might have won normally if I had managed to peel off a couple AHC units. The AI also doesn't work reinfocements well. If you can kill or rout units one at a time they come back spaced out and isolated. Also, I found in one fight that my enemy assumed a strong defensive position, but I peeled them away from it one unit at a time with 3 faris units (used one at a time). If you can concetrate your forces and ambush their units this way, it's possible to destroy an enemy unit pinned by Nubian spearmen and surounded by ghazi before they send reinforcing units from the defensive position. I assume this is also an issue with the AI (the not sending reinforcements en masse part). I don't cheat or even mod unit values, but I often exploit weak AI. I hope no one is offended, but I find it part of the fun of the game ... I'm weird.

katank,

Thanks for the organ gun info. I'll buy a couple and put them in the gaps of my front line. Now after reading your description I can't wait to set these up in the desert. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...-2thumbsup.gif

Troop quality ... OK, I'll buy that for a dollar. I always garrison peasants or sometimes low star generals who picked up bad combat vices and whose units were devastated in case I lose generals I am developing or I expose another province to enemy units and need a commander for defensive units there.

Again, thanks guys. I appreciate the info.

no problem, any time.

I love to put organ guns in the gaps between spears also.

it's funny when my skirmishers retreat behind my spear wall and the enemy are suddenly facing a wall of bristling spears and a blast of organ gun in the face

note: they are the best in bridge and/or castle defense where they can literally rip up a complete unit in a single volley.

even 100 men units like spearmen can be vaporized in those conditions.

Desert warfare can be good if you are playing as a Muslim faction. They have a good unit of archers (I forgot the name) but they have 16 men and can camoflage themselves without the use of forestry or woods So in a valley, just let the enemy go through and shoot at them from both sides.

Spies are actually quite good IMO. If you place them in a province where the rulers are planning to invade another province, the spy will let you know. I ain't so sure of how effective they are for Muslims though.

I don't think retreating generals is a good idea. I think you lose the valour bonus they give, and you certainly lose the morale bonus.

Spies are useful for warning you for attacks, unsettling enemy provinces, keeping peace in your own provinces, catching enemy spies and assasins and putting generals on trial for treason. They also can be used to reveal vices of enemy generals.
Problem is that the effect of multiple spies in enemy provinces does not stack in VI (it does in friendly provinces). This is implemented because the spy-rush-tactic was too powerful.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ July 21 2004,14:22)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I don't think retreating generals is a good idea. I think you lose the valour bonus they give, and you certainly lose the morale bonus.

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I read somewhere on these boards that many folks withdrew generals with no loss of valour or morale, but I thought some of my forces were routing early after withdrawing my general. Anyone have the details on this please? This could be part of my problem as I never withdraw forces in Europe and I have more convincing wins there.

Ludens, whats the advantage of trying your own generals? I have a few generals I want to get rid of (greedy amirs bringing down my happiness and income in the provinces), but I want their troops and dread disbanding them. So far I have been putting these guys on the frontline and letting attrition purge the units of bad leaders, but it's random and a painfull process that sometimes backfires.

Oh Yeah, katank's comment on bridges brings up an interesting observation. When playing my first campaign, before patching to VI 2.1, bridge maps were damned near impossible without taking huge losses. Now I can usually get fast units accross before the enemy sets up a proper defense and flank them. Did the patch do anything to the AI in bridge conflicts or am I just lucky so far?

withdrawing right away before the enemy lines even fully materialize will preserve the valor as well as morale but not the close to general morale bonus which is +1 per star. they only get +2 per star but is often much better than losing him.

assasination or trial for treason will only kill the unit leader as is inquisition if catholic.

you are lucky. bridge battles are still a blood bath.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (CherryDanish @ July 21 2004,21:41)]I read somewhere on these boards that many folks withdrew generals with no loss of valour or morale, but I thought some of my forces were routing early after withdrawing my general. Anyone have the details on this please? This could be part of my problem as I never withdraw forces in Europe and I have more convincing wins there.

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Well, Katank has already answered that. I will just add that the morale bonus of the general's V&V's and the general's rank stay, but the 'close to the general'-bonus is lost.
The valour the generals rank confered on the troops does not give a morale bonus at all (but, like I said, the general's rank does).

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Ludens, whats the advantage of trying your own generals?

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Trying them for heresy by an inquisitor just removes the unit leader. It has no direct advantages except for keeping the inquisitor busy (and thus preventing him from burning the peasants) and gaining him stars. Also, if the inquisitor fails, the defendant is likely to gain piety-increasing vices. It is a nice trick if you want to increase the piety of your princes of your monarch. You can do this with ordinary inquisitors, since their chance of succeeding approached zero. However, when I did this first time, it backfired on me: the test-subject became an atheist.

Trying them for treason with a spy also removes the unit leader only. It is dependend on the loyalty of the leader and, if the trail succeeds, other units will gain a loyalty boost. However, I think there's a loyalty penalty for other units if the trail fails. Certainly the unit leader in question won't feel as devoted to you and he will gain a vice that protects him against spies.

IMO withdrawing Gens at the start is not a good tactic - if the Gen adds morale to the army you lose that and its not very realistic - imagine a General withdrawing at the start of a real fight.

When splitting fleets remember that the slowest ship determines the fleet speed.

I find that winning with the Almos requires some extra work; things that you should do with other factions are critical with the Aloms: focus on developing high valor/high morale troops - making the right buildings and upgrades, combining depleted units correctly, getting some provinces in Spain early to allow you to upgrade weapons, acquiring the right mercs to complement the Almo force mix, and keeping the trade going to pay for it all.

Timing is also important here - wait for the right moment, when the other guy is focused elsewhere.

ichi