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A sudden doubt just assailed me, cause I just realized I've never once retreated a unit with a General....I mean I've had my Gen die in battle or get routed off the field https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...c-furious3.gif , but never retreated one
Now my doubt is...if I withraw a Gen from the battlefield how does that affect my troops?
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...evalcheers.gif
I've never retreated a general either, however I was under the impression that the General has a proximity morale boost effect so once he's gone he won't be applying that to anyone.
If your general dies, then I think you lose any valour bonus he gives to all your troops. I suppose you could check this by counting the little flags on the units (each little flag that a unit carries on the battle field represents their total valour) before and after the general dies. Remember that each point of valour loss will also lose you two points of morale.
I've noticed the enemy often retreats a general at the start of a battle and they don't seem to lose the valour bonus he gives, so I guess the same rules would apply to you.
The main reason for me never to retreat a general is that I don't want any of those good runner/coward type vices.
I once or twice got a morale Vice on a General not by retreating but simply by aborting a charge of the general's unit.
The vice said something about the General being reluctant to engage the enemy in battle.
I'm quite sure the Good Runner vice comes from generals routing, not retreating.
Retreating the general? Well, you'll lose any bonuses he confers onto the troops, I think. So you won't get the proximity morale bonus thing, where troops close to him get more morale, and I think you might loose any attack/defense bonuses he gives.
But at least he can't die, so you can't take the army-wide morale hit.
If you constantly retreat the general, he would be getting the eager to retreat vices I believe.
Retreated general still grants atk/def bonus to the troops. However, due to him being away, they definitely would not get the +2 morale within 50m, though cannot confirm the +1 morale beyond 50m (now it becomes more like 50km).
The AI likes to do that with those general units which are heavily depleted.
*edit*
woot 100 posts
The atk/def bonus dissappears only if the general is killed or captured. Even routed or withdrawn off the field, the atk/def bonus still stays.
To the original question:
You lose moral and valor bonuses for the rest of your army by having no general.
The general is likely to get good runner vice which for me is tatamount to throwing him away cuz I hate the -2 moral hit he will carry into my amry from then on. This will affect him from then on.
Also marching into a province to attack it but changing your mind and pulling back has caused my generals to get not so bold and good runner vices as I recall.
Vacating the the defence of a province when it is attacked by another yields the same results.
For this reason if I am feinting an attack simply to force the AI to choose where to send troops to while I am purposely attacking an adjacent province I always use a zero or throw away general for this purpose. If he gets a bad vice - so what? He's not ever going to command a real battle anyway.
You do NOT lose general induced valour by retreating the general. You lose the moral bonus confered by prozimity (+2 per command star for being close to the general) and I am pretty sure you also lose the +1 moral per command star.
Bear in mind geenral induced valour does NOT change moral at all, you do NOT get the +2 moral a normal valour point gives you, just moral for command starst which os calculated seperately.
A general will NEVER get the good runner vice, or furtherations of it from retreating, he will get this from routing from the battle.
you may get a vice which says your geenral does not include himself in the fray, which I belive is a -2 moral, but this is rare and I have never actually seen it in all ther games I have played, even when an enemy geenral has retreated from the field several times.
you will only get the 'indecisive' strain (-2 moral -1 loyalty) from calling off attacks, not from retreating from them, the worst of this strain is 'vacillator' which gives -6 moral and -3 loyalty.
The 'eager to retreat' strain of vices (-2 moral -1 loyalty) is gained by backing down from defensive battles, always retreating to the castle or from the province, this is not gained in battle itself.
If you general has vices or virtues which effect the whole army (plusses or minuses to moral for the most part) these will STILL effect the army if he retreats from the field, so it is no good using a high star coward and retreating him, as the moral penalty still remains.
That vice seems to almost be given out randomly. I have twice had instances where my generals received that vice after battles where they were personally heavily involved in the fighting. Go figure...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Never seen that happen randomly before. You'll need to engage in melee so a ranged general got higher risk getting it (It's not so bold (-2 morale), something (-4) and cowardly (-8) ).Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I can guess that either you withdrawed your general afterwards or that the last battle for getting the vice doesn't matter.
Well you just have to make sure you're general is supported by other units. If it is infantry vs cav and it begins to retreat it will get run down by the cavalry and they will rout. So i usually use my generals unit in my armys center, so it can't be flanked or routed easily. Unless you are careless or losing the battle there is no reason to retreat you're general.
I don´t check or follow the stats much when playing but I can tell you this much. In my offensive army I always have two or three good generals and if my best one is depleated, or getting close to be killed I retreat him leaving command to the next general in line. This works great and I´venever got anything bad out of it, like a negative vice, except for the retreat one.