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I have met only once pikeman in my games till know(they were in my enemy army). I didn't have problems killing them with a FMAA. I want to know for what purposes are good pikemans(except vs cav) or it is better to use other units instead them like swiss pikeman or something else.
I've always found that a good unit of pikes with reasonable valour are very good at holding almost any position you ask them to. Providing you keep them in a position where they can't be outflanked or anything. River crossings spring to mind...
Ok so pikemans are good for defense. I suppouse they are better then spearmens an seargents maybe, but are they better than halderberies and are the y good for attacking(I know that atacjk is not their best function).
Pikemen can attack well, if they're kept in formation. They get an irresistable charge bonus, IIRC, so should wreak havoc.
Use the Swiss armoured variety, and line up on a cavalry unit that's already engaged. Charge them from point blank and enjoy.
Pikemen are a little bit of a mystery to me as rarely let the game go on long enough to see them, but they have advantages. THey are akin to spearmen in that they get good bonusses against cavalry, but unlike spearmen the onus goes mostly to attack, and they have a higer attack rating aswell, but a lower defence rating. They are better than spearmen at killing cavalry, and slightly, only slightly, worst at pinning.
Using pikes rather than spears will result in more casualties to both sides so I tend to use them as I would axemen, hit the back or flank of cav or armoured units with them when the unit is pinned.
Pikemen annihilate everything four-legged, but suck against anything else
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyConqueror
name-melee-defense-morale; cavalry attack bonus-cavalry defense bonus
feudal sergeants 0 -1 2; 1 4
chiv sergeants -1 3 0; 1 4
pikemen 1 -1 2; 2 6
halbs 1 6 5; 0; 3 1
As you can tell from these stats, and considering that pikemen are available only in late, pikemen only come into their own against cavalry.
You guys are forgetting about the rank bonuses. Spears get rank bonuses for up to 2 extra ranks (+1 attack, +2 defense). Pikes get rank bonus up extra 4 ranks (+2 attack, +4 defense). Halbs do not have any rank bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat
Another point: Pikes are 2 handed weps, hence no shields. Same for halbs Spears have large shields (chiv 0.5 modifier).
FBE's guide says it all. Spears and Pikes are meant to pin and recieve charges. It takes other units to kill.
SAPs are another thing entirely. Medieval version of Spartan Hoplites.
*edit*
Forgot another point regarding pikes vs spears as mentioned in FBE's guide: Spears have a larger frontage as compared to pikes in order for both to maximise their rank bonuses. This may cause issues with wrap-around effect.
Sorry, MT is right. I was a bit too lazy to type in all off their stats, making pikemen appear weaker than they really are.
While we're at it, let's also add that neither sergeants nor pikemen have armour piercing, and Halbs do. Indeed, anybody serious about their MTW should get a good unit guide.
Must admit most of my gaming is in Early and I rarely get to use pike.
But I do use a lot of spearmen and they are a very useful unit for their cost... many an enemy heir has died on the sharp end of a long stick... so as for pikes I tend to use them as I do my spearmen.
Which is if I only have a few they are deployed at my rear flanks.
Or if I have a lot (like in defense with lots of archers) they are deployed in a horseshoe defense with the best of the spearmen/pikes in reserve to plug the gaps.
I believe that swiss pikemen are some of the best foot units, combined with the +2 valor bonus for switzerland and the county militia they are great for attack or defense, normal pikemen are not as good but are still great v.s cavalry
~:) Pikemen are basically best used to repulse Cavalry and to attack the flank/rear.
~:) They have to keep formation and are best when they can keep their rank bonus - for defending a river crossing there's none finer.
~:pissed: They aren't much good against sword based units.
~:pissed: They're not that good IME in a prolonged ruck on a field battle.
They're basically just another part of the stone, scissors, paper game that most Medieval units fall into.
When I play as English I normally go for Billmen instead.
That emoticon not working?
@ sir toma, they only get v1 from region bonus. master level buildings like county militia don't give bonus if the unit requires this level.
pikers are vulnerable to archery due to no shield but they can be used on attack.
they are a more defense oriented version of spear while polearms are more attack oriented.
use pikers to pin and polearms to flank/rear will result in mangled horse flesh everywhere.
they do have smaller frontage than spears and their deeper rank means that they fatigue faster, making them lose against spears in frontal combat.
"@ sir toma, they only get v1 from region bonus. master level buildings like county militia don't give bonus if the unit requires this level."
Someone mentioned +1 valour for pikes at Switzerland. It is actually bonus for swiss units, not for plain pikes. Plain pikes get their region bonus at Tyrolia.
"they do have smaller frontage than spears and their deeper rank means that they fatigue faster, making them lose against spears in frontal combat."
Mmmm? I thought only armour affects fatigue? If the rank bonus applies, technically all but last reinforcement rank are involved in combat, and hence they all would tire.
Spears: 25 men per row
Pikes: 16.6 men per row. (ok, 17 men per row)
The slight difference in number of idle men shouldnt make that much of difference.
Also, spears operate in hold formation, hence no wrap around effect.
Actually, units with a smaller frontage fatigue slower (their units are less cumbersome to move and less men are fighting at any one moment). The fatigue of a unit is the average fatigue of all individual soldiers (strangely, the effects of fatigue are identical for all men: a soldier standing in the back rank doing nothing gets just as tired as one in the front rank fighting. But if more men are fighting, a unit tires faster).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maeda Toshiie
I have always found pikeman good for defending the entrance of a castle because of their pikes, and except being good against cav, pikemen are easily defeated by order foot soldiers. :knight: