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Thx frogbeastegg. That article is full of priceless quotes:
"anyone should be able to enjoy what's on offer here in a matter of minutes."
"it's a game that tricks the casual observer into thinking it's more complicated than it is"
"If things are getting too hectic, Rome includes a useful Pause mode"
"CA wants to always make sure the game is fun for whoever plays it."
"start saving up for what promises to be this year's essential RTS war game."
don't forget:
"as good as [MTW + STW] undoubtedly are, both seemed destined to be the preserve of the hardcore elite"
"armies of more than 5000 sprawling out all over huge sprawling maps"
"Creative Assembly has gone back to basics, listened to the feedback..."
"Even battles can be resolved, largely without getting your hands dirty."
Man it's like they got a monkey to write this preview.
"With the Barbarian battle over relatively swiftly..."
"you quickly move your Triarii into battle, right-clicking on the Barbarian 'scum'"
Not to break up the overall atmosphere od gloom, but some of those quotes are good things or have existed since STW...
Guys, I have two remarks and a question.
First, many of the quotes cited apply equally well to Shogun or Medieval.
Second, even if the troops in the demo ran more slowly, the quoted statements would still apply.
Considering that I can find no actual point to discuss in this thread thusfar, has sarcasm come to replace discourse?
D'oh!
This is what I get for starting a message before lunch and posting it afterwards without refreshing the thread.
Anyway, great minds and all that...
Well, Nelson, quite a few of those qutoes are heresy to anyone who liked STW & MTW. RTS is a dirty word (OK, acronym) for a very good reason. It is exactly what most of us here DO NOT WANT TO SEE. RTS are dime-a-dozen. Many of us don't even bother buying them. I've got several, but lost interest in each of them after 2 or 3 days, either because I "solved" them, they weren't very challenging, or the play was too quick to be interesting for more than five minutes. I haven't bought any new ones in the past two years.
On a positive note, perhaps RTW will be able to provide satisfaction for both the hardcore strategy types, and the RTS clickfesters. We will just have to wait and see. RTS types seem to prefer 5 minute engagements. The typical STW/MTW player builds up armies to fight much longer battles: probably 20 minutes or more in most cases. What we seem to want as a group is a challenging strategic game, with good battle gameplay using historical units and tactics. We also want to have decent control over the units and a reasonable play speed to avoid it becoming a "timed speed test" clickfest. Reviews and the demo so far have been a very mixed bag.
The reviewer is saying that stuff to indicate how RTW is different from STW and MTW, and that it now appeals to RTS gamers while STW and MTW didn't. He even calls RTW an RTS game. The statements that "everyone" should buy the game and CA is making the game for "everyone" obviously refer to every RTS gamer. STW and MTW have the pause feature, and I never had to use it. The reviewer says that if things get too hectic you can pause the battle. Seems like things can get too hectic or why would he mention it? RTS gamers are supposed to be good at fast games. I guess we could play multiplayer with 10 units per army to get it down to something manageable again.
I can play speed chess, but I've never seen a speed chess game played at the same level of quality as a slower chess game. Even cutting the time by only a factor of 2 lowers the quality of play. RTW effectively speeds up the play by a factor of 2 unless you use fewer than 20 units. This analogy holds true for total war multiplayer. Sure you can speed up the game, but the quality of play is going to decline.
On a different note I noticed this quote:
For the purposes of displaying a war game in high detail, with virtually every option turned on, the mid-spec 2GHz demo rig equipped with a GeForce 5200 was as slick as you could wish for.
woot! I guess the demo was just plain unoptimized then.
Puzz I still think it's hersey. We don't want any stinking RTS n00bs! ~:joker:
I remember people saying the same thing about both STW and MTW. Both of those games were always too hectic for me; I always had to use pause. That is why I generally sucked in the few MP games I played; I simply could not keep up without pause. I want to play RTW in MP as well as SP, but I suspect once again it will be too fast to be satisfying; I also suspect that I won't find RTW capable of holding my interest for long in its vanilla state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
Why advertise it? Because it is a feature. Not all games allow you to pause and give orders, and there are many people like me who are unable to keep up without it.
I certainly can't see how saying anyone can enjoy a game is a bad thing, nor how saying you can pick it up and get playing quickly is bad. It does not have to mean the game has been dumbed down to the point where plankton could play; it could simply mean that this time around the information you need is presented in-game and is easy to find. No more going to buy the strategy guide, or rummaging around in the game's files to find the units stats, for example.
Calling RTW a RTS is inaccurate, true, but I saw the same label pasted on both previous games. Some people can never get the labels right... I loathe RTS games with a passion, really *loathe* them.
My attitude towards RTW can be summed up as cautiously pessimistic, but even so I didn't find that article too depressing. I get more depressed when I see someone saying "Dudezzz!1!!1! Iz like c00l and 1337!!!1!!1 Iz getting da RTW!!!11!" translation: I'm a n00b and I am getting the game, this means you may encounter me and my incomprehensible slang on-line.
Well, I never used pause in those games and RTW is too hectic for me. That puts you even further away from a satisfying multiplayer experience than me. I don't expect unit speeds to be slowed down before final release because that would require a rebalance of all the units. It's not only too late for that, there is probably no desire on the part of CA to slow it down. I don't expect unit speeds to be changed after release because CA has never been willing to do that. Multiplayer comes down to whether you can beat the rush or not. If you can't, then that becomes all you see as more and more players pick up on it as the most successful style of play. As you reduce a player's ability to react to aggressive moves, the game shifts toward offense and away from defense. Some players think they can set traps, and their opponent will obligingly walk into it. Well, they can forget about that because it's trivial to clear out small forces in close by woods before you bring up your main army.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
i pretty much gave up on VI as the soon as the gameplay got predictable to the point where i couldnt justify the time i spent playing/waiting for games ;/.... i was hoping RTW was gonna offer something new in terms of strategy and tactics, but if the situation is as yukkis predicts then i think il tire of it very quickly.
From the things CA has said so far i think the elite MP players are the last people CA plan to listen to on this release. ~:(
gah!
my comments weren't pointing out problems with the game, I was poking fun at things the Preview said that were false.... I was also insulting their poor grammar and word usage. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Remember though that he was playing on a machine at a CA location. They may have optimized the machine specifically for RTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by son of spam
I think I figured that out when I found I couldn't even keep up with liberal pausing in the demo. ~:) Too much happening all at once over too large an area, combined with controls that randomly stopped working and tended not to like being customised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
Excuse a frog a touch of bitterness, if you will, but in all these years since STW arrived there have been many topics on the use of pause on the various TW forums. Many people echoed my own feelings, that both STW and MTW were too fast and pause was needed to keep up. The general response from MPers and those who don't need to pause was essentially "get faster, shut up whining, the game is fine". Look at how things stand now. I have been here many times before, even though I don't complain on the forums. To me this speed issue is very old hat.
Much better controls and a little slower overall and I would not have played STW/MTW with pause. The demo's control issue should be fixed in the final game, but even if it is slowed down I doubt it will be slower than the old games. Whether the changes will be enough or not remains to be seen; only the final game will reveal it.