Re: tactics and war stories
There are basically two approaches you can take.
My favorite is to bring all cavalry, though this only really works if the ai doesn't have much cav. Be sure to have lots of ca. Just send the cav units over the bridge and run them off to the side as soon as they get over. The ai will send out units to chase, you can divide them up and surround them using your cavs mobility, and shoot them with your ca. Don't forget, with two cav you can easily defeat two yari sam.
The other one relies on mass archers. Use the ashi bait tactic to use up there arrows and use your archers to shoot at the units they send at your ashis. Finally charge all your real infantry acroos and slog it out at the end of the bridge. You will have much higher casualties using this tactic.
Re: tactics and war stories
When AI is defending, it generally draws its units back from the bridge end, such that it is within archer range, which gives you the room to pull off that cav technique. I recently polished off a superior number of all-cavalry, attacking me across a river by not giving it that luxury, sealing off the very end of the bridge with spearmen.
For the archers technique, put one unit on the riverbank, either side of the bridge, two or three ranks deep. Send your 'bait' units across one at a time (I start with cadres of under 20 men, if I have them, plus full-strength units in reinforcements for when they're withdrawn). AI will send a spear unit or two to meet it and your archers can tackle these.
Switch off the 'fire at will' setting and manually switch their aim to other incoming enemy units, or just hit the 'stop' button to make them ceasefire, as soon as they engage your unit on the far side. This prevents friendly fire on your own men (the AI might not be quite so smart!) and also stops the archers from using skirmisher behaviour, which will make them change position and/or their orientation, relative to the river bank, which may put one end of the formation out of range for what you want them to do (hit the most distant units they can reach).
If you're lucky, you may be able to 'tease' the AI a bit by ordering your unit to run back to your side of the bridge before melee starts (even before all of the unit has got across) but still score hits with the arrows. Time pressure limits how long you can keep doing this, likely no more than twice before you have to commit the main attack.
Before you do that, put two fresh archer units in place at the riverbank as you'll need missile cover as you establish a bridgehead and the first two will probably be low on ammo by this stage.
If sending spear units across first, put the first one on hold formation/hold position, to begin with. Although you're the attacker, the AI will be coming to you, on the far side, so your first unit should adopt a defensive posture and hold off the counter attacks, for as long as it takes for your units behind it to form up and begin attacking themselves. Second and third units should stop the first unit being flanked.
I would tend to avoid committing my more expensive units (NDs, WMs etc) to the melee until there were signs of the AI running out of missiles, at which point it tends to draw all its units back to the high ground anyway. If it does that, don't chase them immediately, as your units on that side will be fatigued by now. Leave them on the defensive as you bring cavalry, shock troops, your taisho's unit and any reserve archers across. Form up and carry out a conventional attack from there. If you're very lucky the defenders may rout before you make contact again.
Bear in mind this is a description of what happens when things go entirely my way. A lot depends on how the AI behaves at any given point. Also, how many casualties you can tolerate up to the point where it backs off and lets you form a bridgehead and whether you think you have enough troops remaining to complete the job.
Re: tactics and war stories
Attacking Bridges is really annoying, I hate it so much, you have a couple of my favorite options...
1.) Uses Ashies to build up a 2 stack army and the AI retreats
2.) bait with ahsis kill with bows
3.) this is the one I use most the time...
Roster:
4 Bows
2 Yaris
2 No Dachai
2 Yari cav
4 Nagintas
2 of whatever
You line your bows up on the riverbank, then you use your Yari cav to kill there archers, most likey there will be alot, pick one side and rush the cav to that side,
Nagintas (or Riot Police) as I call them, should hold up and cav/ heavy infantry they have on the other side...
No dachis are good if you need kills fast, send them over 3rd in case your cav are having problems with yari samies, they should deal with it, one the cav are free, 1 group pursuit the running away/still firing archers, other flank the infantry the naginats have been holding down for a while now, they should rout... If NOT and they come for a counter attack, soon as you win the other side of the bridge double time your archers over, create a formation, cav should persuit to add morale penelty so they shouldnt reform...
It works for me, its hard to get used too though...
Re: tactics and war stories
Quote:
Originally Posted by shogunKatzumoto
I have difficulty attacking bridges.
LOL, who hasn't? Bridges spell death for some of your finest units and seeing so many of them drop to enemy arrows makes you feel inadequate even if you are winning pretty easily. I guess we're talking one-bridgers since the only two-bridger in the game, Owari, is really bridgeless (the AI doesn't have a clue as to how to defend it and usually keeps it main force far away from the waterfront). I have only a couple of suggestions since it's been a while since I played STW. So here go my 2 cents.
1. Cavalry. I agree with remarks above that if the AI has little or no Cavalry, it often pays to rush your Cavalry across the bridge for some sort of flanking maneuver. This works best if you send your Taisho across with them for morale reasons. If things turn foul, your Taisho can hold till reinforcements (hopefully) arrive. It also depends on the terrain. If the enemy shore is a broad, flat waterfront it usually works out fine. If it's a salient and rather steep, it tends to fail because your Cavalry will be intercepted by enemy YS before they can flank.
2. Archers. If the AI has a mainly "vulnerable" force (WM, ND, YA) it pays to lure them to the waterfront with one or two or your units and hit them with massive flights of arrows. If you use NS for bait, this pays off even better since NS are elite and the AI will soon send its strongest units to counter them. In these cases I used to bring seven Samurai Archer units, or if possible five SA and two Cavalry Archer units (useful for pursuing stragglers later on).
3. Later in the game you should consider taking bridges with what I called a "black army" of NC and CA. These should be coupled in two-somes of one unit NC and one unit CA, and sent across in one big rush, NC first, CA to give cover with arrows. Just make sure your NC units don't get entangled at the far side of the bridge and end up in a huge equestrian lump. Micromanage them, extract them as soon as they've formed up on the other side and make them attack on the enemy flanks or at least in that direction, not head-on under any circumstance. The trick is the AI will respond with its usual Elmer Fudd tactics, i.e. send one YS unit at a time towards you. Your NC take them on while the accompanying CA shoot them up and the second couple of NC and CA is arriving at full speed to double them. Works wonders sometimes. Other times you die in amazing ways... ~;)
EDIT-->Since this thread is about war stories as well as tactics, let me expand on those "black armies" for they were really my farewell present to myself after playing STW for over a year, sometimes deep into the night. By the time I had the upper hand in a campaign and I was teched to the max, I would train these armies of 10 NC, fully upgraded with all the bonuses, and 6 CA (same). Usually I would have one faction opponent left on the map, plus assorted Rebels. Instead of attacking that opponent's territory I would sit back and give him time to tech up, build the best troops he could get and throw them at me in provinces of his choice. I would always have a couple of "black armies" on stand-by. I was really only experimenting, the game as such (i.e. strategically speaking) would be over at this stage.
Such a "black army" is guaranteed to beat anything and everything the AI can bring onto the battlefield, up to 5000 strong, well-balanced faction armies (Rebel armies are often ill-balanced since they are mostly composed of units raised in the one province they are sitting on). It is superior because of its mobility, allowing you to weave and dodge, twist and turn your formation till the enemy go apeshit and expose their flank to a lethal charge. Three units of CA can devastate any enemy unit inside of one minute. When you are able to do this to their Taisho unit, it's a sure rout unless he's a 5-star or something. Only caveat is when a "black army" has to fight the next best thing on the battlefield, which is still IMHO the basic and highly effective standard army of 8 YS, 6 SA and 2 YC. If the enemy deploy this standard army in a wide formation and manage to get or keep the high ground, your only option is use your mobility and tease, flank and outmaneuver them. This can take a while, so scrap the battle time limit (I never found that to be of any use anyway). First off, you can start feigning NC attacks from various angles to force the enemy to change direction all the time, which makes their SA unable to fire effectively since they are moving half the time. That allows your CA to approach and shoot up their front rows in order to lure some of their YS away. Meanwhile two units of your NC make a wide circle in order to attack the enemy rear (never just one, always two, because if the first gets entangled the second can assist and set them free before they rout). As soon as the other units see their Taisho sitting there with a Naginata lance up his a**, they start thinking of home real hard. Speaking of which, maybe I should give it a try one of these days. Now where did I bury that old STW cd of mine?...
Re: tactics and war stories
Kutsumoto,
I Have A Tactics On Bridges That Has Worked For Me Very Well. But First Let Me Say That I Too Have Always Hated Trying To Attack Over A Bridge. It Always Puts You At A Huge Disadvantage And In The Real World I Would Never Even Attempt Anything Like This.
But Since That Wont Help You Much...i'll Tell You Something That Will.
Okay, First Things First, I'm Not Sure If You've Noticed But How Your Troops Are Formed At Your End Of The Bridge Makes A Huge Differance Regarding The Manner In Which They Cross It. You May Have Noticed That They Sometimes Come In On The Sides Leaving A Hole In The Center. Or Will Go Over Nearly Single File!!!!and Never Be Able To Get Much Done Before The Are Massacered. So Heres How To Form Up Your Attacking Troops. As Sun Tzu Said "the Truely Skilled Commander Seeks Victory...then Battle."
Archers: When Crossing A Single Bridge You Should Have At Least Four, And If You Can Spare Them, Six Archer Units. Now I Know What You're Thinking. Archers Are No Good On A Bridge Attack, Only On A Bridge Defense. But This Is Not So.
Move You Archers Into Position To The Sides Of The Bridgde And Slightly Back. Basically What You Are Looking For Is An Upside Down "v" With The Tip On The Exit Point At The Other End Of The Brideg. The Whole Of The Defending Army Will Back Off Out Of Range When They See Your Archers Coming. This Allows You To Form Up To Attack Without Rushing It Cause Your Being Shot At.
Line Them Up In A Orderly Fashion 2-3 Units In Closely Packed "perfect Square" Formations Off To The Left And Two Or Three To The Right. The Square Formation Is...i Think...the Best For Archers. Its The Best Chance You Have Of Having Them All Able To Fire At Thier Targets Fully.
Yari Ashigaru And Samurai: For A Bridge Attack You Need At Least One Unit Of Yari Samurai Or Ashigaru. Even If You Have A "perfect Army" (7 Monks,4 Archer,4 Heavy Cav, All Fully Fully Fully Upgraded Under A Rank 3-5 General.) That's Only 15 Units. And In That Last Place You Can Put Whatever You Want. In This Case Make It A Unit Of Ya Or Ys As Upgraded As You Can. If Your Enemy Has A Larger Defensive Force You May Want Two Ya Or Ys Units For This Strategy To Be Effective.
Form-up: Form Your Armies In Perfect Squares 8-10 Men Across (just As Wide As The Bridge Itself, Some Are Skinnier And Some Are Wider) And Just Slightly Back From The Bridge. Put Your Yari First And Your Attack Units In Sigle File Squares. When You Order Them To Cross...magic Happens...and If You've Done It Right Your Yari Will Cross The Bridge In Waves. And 8-10 Men Will Cover Every Inch Of The Bridge And Hold The Line Much Better. Trust Me On This One Its A Little Hard To Get The Hang Of But Once You Do Your Golden.
Now Don't Send The Rest Of Your Primary Attackers In. Group Them Together And Mover The Next Square With The Five Others Behind It Into Position At The Entrance Of The Bridge.
By This Time Your Yari Will Have Started Taking Fire From Archers But Don't Sweat It, None Of Them Were Meant To Survive Anyway. That's Right, I Said It. That Yari Unit...is A Suicide Unit. There Only Purpose Is To Draw The Enemys Powerful Hand-to-hand Defenders To The Bridge Exit So That Your Archers Can Decimate Them. This Is Why The Positioning Of Your Archers Must Be Exact. You Want The Arrows Coming In From The Side...not Not Not From Behind. The Defender Force Will Surround Your Yari On Three Sides. And With Fire Coming From The Sides You Will Mostly Be Killing Enemy Defenders. (by The Way, Don't Let Your Archers Be On Fire-at-will. You Want Them Targeted On The Sides Of The Massed Enemy Force. Not Shooting Wherever The Freaking Please) Of Course You Will Kill Some Of Your Own Men, But They Will Allow Your Archers To Send Volly After Volly Into The Enemy Defenders. As Soon As Your Yari Are Nearly Gone (depending On How Upgraded They Were) Your Archers May Have Already Exhausted Their Ammo. But Regardless, Send The Next Unit In Line In. But Just One And Move The Rest Forward.
When Your Archers Run Out Of Arrows. Most Of The Defeders H-2-h Force Will Probably Be Gone, And Those That Are Left Wont Be Much To Stand Against The Monks That Are About To Come Over The Bridge. But Remember, Send Them One Unit At A Time. So That Your Unit Waves Can Keep Up. Never Select Them All And Say "go" They'll All Be Dead In Minutes .
Once The H-2-h Force Is Gone Send Every Body After The Archers That Are Left If They're Not Already Retreating. Once The Bridge Exit Clears Up...send Cav To Chase Them Down If You Have Any. But For The Most Part Cav Will Only Clog The Bridge Up In Any Other Function.
And That's How It's Done. Personnaly, I Turn The Moral Off...always Have. I Fight To The Death, Or I Kill Every Last Enemy On The Field...and No One Retreats Once The Attack Starts. Unless Of Course They Attack, Run Around The Field For A Moment, And Then Turn And Retreat Without Even Trying To Engage Me Because They Simply Could Not Find An Opening ( Yes I've Won Many Battles In This Way.) So I'm Not Sure How Long It Would Take Them To Retreaet But I Don't Suppose They Will Stay Long When Thier Defenders Are Gone And You've Only Lost A Single Yari Unit.
With All Respect,
Shonen
