Units overview for early Julii campaign

In the context of playing as Romans (Julii) mostly against the Gauls so far:

-- Velites are completely useless. They may turn out to be a fairly specialized unit (against heavy infantry, elephants?) but against the Gauls they are not needed.

-- Hastati are OK as your standard meat-and-potatos infantry.

-- Wardogs are excellent. With their high attack rating they kick major ass. Besides the units "regenerate" for free. A free bonus is the graphics -- looking at a pack of doggies (which actually look like large grey rats) swarm some infantry is hilarious. One downside is that you can't control them once you loose them, but if there is a melee furball it doesn't matter much.

-- Equites are very good (see all the threads about how overpowered cavalry is). Charge from the flanks and then just chase the routing units :-) .

-- Archers are OK. They are very useful because of AI stupidity (AI units will often stand still under missile fire), but in an open-field moving battle they are nothing special.

-- Cavalry Auxilia is not all that useful, but low-maintenance. You can just sic them onto enemy heavy infantry in skirmish mode and they will mostly (but not always) sucessfully annoy them and stay out of trouble on their own. In my experience they won't make enough damage to make a difference, though.

-- Principi are just a bit better than hastati, again nothing more than standard infantry.

-- Triarii are slower than other units and too high up the tech tree. However you get one unit to start with and they are your best anti-cav unit for a long time. They were priceless when I had to storm a town through an narrow single gate with 40 enemy heavy cav waiting on the other side...

Fey

I disagree with your statement about Velites. I have found them to be extremely useful, especially in situations where I am outnumbered. Here are some of the times when I find them most useful:

-In defense, especially against greater numbers. I put them behind my Hastati and also put my Hastati on fire at will. Together they can really chew up a charge of Gauls before the initial impact.

-Against enemy cavalry. If you can pin enemy cavalry with your Hastati or militia, then Velites can do tremendous damage to them.

-When attacking cities. Before storming the walls, I try to maneuver my Velites so that they can sling javelins through the open gate at enemy defenders. I let them use up their ammo before I charge with my Hastati. Often the enemy will withdraw to avoid the javelins, which gives a nice cushion of space to rush my Hastati through and get into formation inside the city walls.

-Attacking city squares. The enemy is often reluctant to charge when they are defending the center of their city. Often it is the enemy general with his heavy cavalry. If you keep your Hastati close by to intercept a charge, then you can send your Velites in and decimate the enemy's heavy troops that are standing in a defensive posture awaiting your full assault. Works great against enemy heavy infantry in the same situation. Often you can destroy a couple of enemy units without taking any losses at all using this tactic.

-Diversions. Velites are quick, and if the enemy doesn't have available cavalry, then your Velites can be excellent at drawing enemy units out of formation.

I typically use Velites in any way that I can to soften up the enemy before committing to hand-to-hand fighting. As long as you keep your Velites from getting overrun by barbarians, then they are a powerful tool. The key is to keep them protected and don't let them get into a postion where they can be charged by enemy cavalry. A nearby light infantry unit can often intercept a cavalry charge aimed at your Velites as long as you don't let them get too spread out.

Look for big clumps of enemies and set your Velites on them. Your front-line troops will take some friendly-fire casualties, but your increased firepower usually makes it work to your advantage.

Orvis, you're using them exactly how they're supposed to be used.
Velites are skirmishers, whose primary role is to screen the main force while harassing the enemy.
At first, I'd doubted the effective use of any skirmishing light infantry.
Kinda impossible to screen your infantry assault force from an enemy that can pan the camera view directly over your head.
But they're excellent for diversions, provoking your enemy into an ill-timed charge and my favorite strat so far - engage them with a phalanx marching straight at you. They won't do that much damage but they will keep the phalanx's focus while you move your equites (and if you're lucky, a unit of principes or hastari) behind them.
Works like a charm.

I was also doubtful of their use as well but have been able to use them effectively. I use them less to inflict damage and more to draw the enemy in the direction i want them.

One tricky maneuver I've been able to pull off a couple times is to have them sprint out in front and get the enemy cavalry to charge. When the enemy cavalry commits I use my own cavalry to swoop in from the flanks and catch them isolated from the main body of infantry. This works well when the enemy doesn't have much cavalry. However, it is sometimes difficult to get them to commit to a charge without getting all your skirmishers trampled.

Usually I carry 2 units of velites in an army. When trying to goad enemy calvary into a charge, I stagger both units so that one is slightly behind and to the side of the other. When the calvary commits to charging, I pull the front line unit back and then engage them with the second line. Appears to be a flip of the coin as to whether the enemy will continue after the first line or break off and engage the second.
Either way, his calvary is going to run smack dab into a defensive line of infantry (Triarii work very nice here) or he's going to get mauled from the rear by a flanking assault.
I'll lose a unit of velites, but he's going to lose his calvary and pretty much the only ability he has to defend his flanks.

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Originally Posted by Spuddicus

I'll lose a unit of velites, but he's going to lose his calvary and pretty much the only ability he has to defend his flanks.

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Exactly. If the enemy force doesn't have much cav I'll glady sacrifice a unit of velites to allow my cav to roam freely around their flanks and rear.

Please note I said velites are useless against the Gauls. I would expect them to be very useful against phalanxes, for example.

I understand the role of light skirmishers. However in RTW the speed of charging infantry and cavalry is such that frontline skirmishers generally get obliterated before they could do any damage or withdraw.

Against the Gauls I don't need skirmishers anyway. The basic tactic against warbands (and swordsmen) is to pin them down with hastati or dogs and charge equites from the flanks.

Two other negatives of velites are that (1) javelines have a flat flight trajectory making velites less useful as rear-positioned missile troops -- archers are much better with their high-arcing arrows -- and (2) velites run out of javelins very quickly. For killing stationary AI units (e.g. in the city square) archers are, again, much much better.

Fey

The advantage that I have found with Velites over archers is that the javelins seem to be much better against armored opponents or opponents with shields. They are especially good against the Gauls' barbarian heavy cavalry and swordsmen.

I really like my velites ~:) I am fairly archer and cavalry light though, so that might be part of it.

I have appreciated my velites vs gauls as well - javelines do very well vs the guals cavalry and their swordsmen, and the velites have lots of them.

And they are fast enough to get out of the way of the gaul cavalry sometimes. (Using skirmish mode on them seems to be a little buggy).

I don't bring a lot, but I like to have 2 units of them around vs gauls.

They are more useful vs the greeks I think, who have lots of their own skirmishers too and the slow moving phalanxes.

I didn't tech to archers till about turn 30 and used velitites exclusively as my ranged unit. Some may think this stupid, but really in the first 30 turns or so, I only saw one or two archer unit's in the gaul and Darcia (sp?) forces. I relied on my Hastati to keep them from being overrun....Throw a couple javalans behind the safety of the Infantry, then I would flank them around the side or back. Yes, they are skirmishers, but they are quite effective as a flanking unit as well.

PS...Dogs rule.

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Originally Posted by Cennyan

PS...Dogs rule.

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Oh yeah ... they love Gaul meat.
But be warned, your dogs will get mauled (couldn't resist that one) against anything with armor.

I've not gotten too far into it with the Julii. All of the units so far seem pretty useful. Hastati seem to be the ones I use the most, but equites get a fair share of the work. I've had dogs in battle, but I've not used them on the enemy yet. They've been in reserve most of the time.

Well actually I've not used peasants or town guard, as I expect the earlier to suck and the later to not be terribly good. The best thing I can think of town guard is it is the only spear unit available early on, since it is hard to get Triarii then.

last nite, the senate gave me this sweet gift of a unit of scorpions... those are nice: long range for decimating any armored veteran units. forget about autocalc though. a human wouldn't put this unit in places where it would get hurt. whereas autocalc depletes it fast.

I've found that missile units behind the Town Watch are useful. The Velites I have only used as skirmishers and to draw the enemy into a trap, if I've been clever enough to set one up. I like to protect my archer unit as much as I can so I can use it during seiges when in Gaul. I haven't used wardogs much, but from what I've heard they are very useful against light infantry and cavalry, especially in pursuit.

Another note about Velites: The Prima strategy guide includes a tip saying that javelins are especially effective against elephants. I haven't tried it myself, but I'm sure I'l be facing elephants soon. :charge: