ORG input to CA on MP issues

After STW and MTW I am disappointed in RTW MP, and apparently I'm not alone (in light of many comments here and on other sites, many by guys that I respect and who could arguably be considered to have been the core of TW MP over the last few years).

I disappoint people all of the time, and I take advice/criticism better when its done properly. I don't like to work hard, come up short, and get bitched at. My guess is that the guys at CA don't like it either.

Please, post suggestions or list bugs here but please try to stay constructive and specific. GilJay posted in another thread so it seems that CA may see and hear us (thanks much GilJay for dropping by).

I think Dionysus set the bar for those of us wishing to comment. Add your helpful comments and hopefully they will get fixed.

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Gil,

This might help--it is a prioritized list of issues that need addressing. Keep in mind this is my opinion from reviewing the complaints and based on my own experience playing MP. I'm sure reasonable minds can differ, and I would encourage the community to comment on the order I've listed these issues:

Critical (things we cant live without):
1. Syncronicity -- Ensure game state is not diverging during the game
2. Crash to Desktop when logging on (still happening, gamespy lobby problem)
3. Replays-- ensure they are syncronized with game (currently they are NOT--we can't run tourneys without replays).
4. Logfiles-- where are they? Do they show what units were taken? We need these for tourneys
5. 3v3 only? We need 4v4's for our tournaments and clan competitions.
6. Unit/Army control is flawed--No way to move army and retain facing (in MTW this was alt-left click), no way to have groups within groups (as in MTW). Formation/orientation is destroyed when dragging a line of units: Say you have AAAABBBB units in a group. When you set them like this AABBBBAA and draw a line the result is AAAABBBB again. Units turn back to their original state and your setting/formation is ignored.

7. Grouped units often refuse to take orders (most commonly the run order). Some report un-grouped units are responding to orders directed at a group.

8. When in testudo, if a single unit walks into the formation, you lose control of that unit of the legionaries in testudo formation for the rest of the game.

Important–(things that make the game highly frustrating)

1. allow Withdrawal/Rout in MP ("W"ithdraw doesn't work in MP!)
2. game info available from lobby
3. allow faction to be selected by more than one player
4. proprietary player names (so some jerk can’t steal your name and ruin your reputation) [linked to CD Key like MTW]).
5. allow “quick chat” (t/y) like in MTW, chat should not fade/scroll so quickly
6. Fatigue bars on units/exhausted units should not be able to run (but they can)
7. allow for custom denari amounts
8. #ignore/#ban commands for gamespy lobby
fade-out names for “in game” players in gamespy lobby
9. allow selection of faction color
10. show who is deployed and who isn’t deployed on the battle map.
11. Bring back F1 to view unit stats and players/factions/teams list (and grey out names of dropped/routed players like in MTW)
12. Unit tax for more than 4 units of same type
13. We need 2 keys to toggle run– if you have a group in which half the units are already running, pressing “R” makes them walk. So “R” becomes useless in groups where some units are walking and others are running. We need a “Run” button and a “Walk” button please.
14. Trying to order an engaged non-cav unit to fall back should result in a major morale penalty when they turn their backs. This doesn’t seem to be occuring.

Preferred– (these are things that would enhance the quality of play for us)
1.Remove “zoom to death of general” during MP games (very distracting)
2.Once routed, “restricted camera” mode should not apply to you. Please fix.
3. Look into reports of server lag.
4. Look into reports of host-drop crashing all players computers.
5. Brighter highlighting for selected units (some say it is difficult to tell selected units from non-selected units)

Would be nice– (add this if you have time)
1. Being able to use general’s rally ability without having to select his unit.

We will mod ourselves:
1. Kill rate/game speed
2. Balance (cav/elephant) [more testing needed]
__________________
|Prophet|Bachus

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Note to the developers of STW/MTW/RTW: thanks for hours of great game play. The Total War series has been IMHO the best game ever. That said, please provide some relief for us MP addicts.

ichi :bow:

Looks good to me. Long long list :(

Yeah that looks awesome... ohh the possibilities...

One other thing to add to the denarii section:

- make it impossible to go 'over budget'
- allow for teammates to see how much of the denarii 'pie' each is using (or just automatically allot the half/third to each player)

also:

- Add a chat window before the battle dedicated to only those in the battle, it gets confusing trying to ask people if they're ready when there are 30 games with people all asking that quesion.

I can't really take much credit, these are issues that were compiled over at the .net and all I really did was prioritize them. Wolf_Kyolic did the initial compilation but it is a community wide effort.

A couple more issues:

Missing from the above list is-- gamespy lobby chat cutting off the bottom of the last line.

And also some people have asked for a shell-to-desktop function (alt-tab or windows key).

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secondary issue--several Spanish players have taken exception to the characterization of hte hispanic faction as "Spanish" and they are requesting a change to "celtiberian" or "iberian" or "hispania"--

CeliberoLion says:
"I prefer first they fixed Mp gameplay issues before this, but don´t see any problem to include the nomenclature error in the list, in the end if you want.

Imagine they name Frenchs to the Gauls, Italian to the Roman, British to Britons, Moroccan to Numidian, Persian to Parths...

Its a serious historical error. Spain dont exist until 1300 AD.

Celtiberian is the most correct, but its a Clan name, i understand they dont want to give preference, but is preferable Iberian or hispanic than spanish."

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Colo,

There is a chat window for the game only--its one of the little icons you click in the chat area. Check it out. Its not intuitive but it is there. It screens out the public chat nicely.

Also, the deal with the florins going over budget--I don't really understand why there is so much resistance to this change. I like to know if i am overbudget by 27 denari, because then I know where to cut spending (one armor off my archer = 30 denari). I've never seen it be a problem online, but anyway. . . it seems to be a recurring complaint so I must be in the minority. In any case, I think we would both agree it pales in comparison to the other major issues.

Major point missing:

WHERE IS OUR MAP EDITOR AND WHEN CAN WE EXPECT IT?

This was supposed to be the "most moddable yet" and so far we cant even make our own maps.

I spent so much time addressing what needs to be fixed that I forgot to include this, which I consider a critical issue.

Army movements controls a must IMO.........
I also cant understand why they re-moved the fatigue bars.......very important IMO also..
Just a quick BUMP!
But do we know yet what they gunna address and how long they gunna make us wait? :furious3:

What was CA's response plz, at present, I find RTW multi rather of little intrest, the substance of the game is gone, the focus appears to be on visual "wows" rather than tactical war-fair; this aside form bugs and balance issues.

So far the only response I've heard about is the one you already know about:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=38505

Other than that I haven't heard anything official--only rumors.

I played two 2v2 online battles with the STWmod for MTW/VI last night, and it struck me that the units look better for playing purposes in STWmod than they do in RTW. Each man in STW has that flag on his back which identifies his clan so the units really stand out, and at the distance you usually set the camera it all looks very good. I also don't get that fan distortion at the sides of the field of view which is very apparent in RTW. The units have a smooth motion instead of that jerkey motion they have in RTW, and the camera is very responsive and stops on a dime.

MTW:VI is proving to be the superior game in terms of MP. It looks like the Prophets are going to abandon RTW until the patch and then reevaluate.

So, for now, it looks like I may soon be joining you Yuuki.

i will have to put a fresh install of mtw shogun mod on the pc.

rome has messed up my clicks in mtw... ~D

Ok here's an idea for Multiplayer Balance... Increase the cost of Spartans!!! I played a game against a Spartan Spammer (literally an all spartan army) at 10K and got my ass handed to me.

Spartan Hoplites are far too cheap.

How many units did he have? I thought they cost 1220 each unit. At the most he should have been able to take 8 units.

He could have adjusted the cost in the text file. I heard about this in other topics and if that is true, then this game is the easiest to cheat with. Just open up export_descr_unit.txt and edit unitcosts. All that playtesting for balance down the drain! :laugh: If it isn't patched then I suggest playing only with people you trust since you have a big chance of playing vs cheaters.

:no:

Indeed. I played versus a clan friend, and Spartan hoplites drained my money reserves like hell. True, they are uber-hoplites, but there are too few of them available for 10K. If he had too many of them, the best chance is that he cheated, but don’t be too fast with accusations; rather save the replay if you are really suspicious and simply add up his unit costs.

I for one simply play, and even when I get soundly beaten, I don’t care if the other cheated or not. It lowers his karma, enhances mine! After all, I just love charging against all odds!

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Originally Posted by sweetzero

How many units did he have? I thought they cost 1220 each unit. At the most he should have been able to take 8 units.

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yeah he did have about that. The problem was i took a balanced Selucid army against him (pikemen, cav and some archers) and was unable to break him even when my cav hit his men from the rear.

The spartans should really be so expensive you can only have a couple of them at 10k. (I also dread to think how you'd beat them as a Barbarian faction)

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Originally Posted by Duke John

He could have adjusted the cost in the text file. I heard about this in other topics and if that is true, then this game is the easiest to cheat with. Just open up export_descr_unit.txt and edit unitcosts. All that playtesting for balance down the drain! :laugh: If it isn't patched then I suggest playing only with people you trust since you have a big chance of playing vs cheaters.

:no:

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This is ridiculous.
In Napoleonic TW we had all kinds of synchro errors from changing the build_prod file. The game would always countercheck all the prod_files, not only the unit_prod file. So if you made a change which didn't affect MP statwise, just the campaign building features, it wouldn't work.
And now in the 5th generation of this series they stop to countercheck those files which are important for MP??
I mean, I could understand if it wouldn't check any building related files or campaign map related files but the unit stats should be compared. Pathetic.....

R'as

In my opinion, it's way too early to start changing stats of any units. I certainly feel I don't have enough experience in the game to make that call.

If you change Spartans, what to you think about cohort, or praetorian?

We all have faced some tough army, but probably not the same tough army ~:) .
Personally I can got ideas to kill a spartan, but I feel much more disheartned if I have to face a Parthian or Scythian. I feel that then, my options are way more limited to efficiently counter that kind of army.

Louis,

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Originally Posted by voigtkampf

Indeed. I played versus a clan friend, and Spartan hoplites drained my money reserves like hell. True, they are uber-hoplites, but there are too few of them available for 10K. If he had too many of them, the best chance is that he cheated, but don’t be too fast with accusations; rather save the replay if you are really suspicious and simply add up his unit costs.

I for one simply play, and even when I get soundly beaten, I don’t care if the other cheated or not. It lowers his karma, enhances mine! After all, I just love charging against all odds!

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I think that is the best attitude. To beat a cheater fair and square is like farting in his face, lol.

This list needs to be at the top... and the cheating aspect... I'm horrified. :embarassed: