Senate & Roman Factions: Civil War

Can someone please sort out the Civil War thing for me? I'm not far into the game, but I'm trying to decide what to do next...

What has to happen for me to attack and defeat the other 2 Roman factions? Can I conquer all their territory without also going to war against the Senate? For example, can I unite Italia first and then take Rome? Is it possible to mod out the other 2 factions and/or change the requirements to attack them?

Same but for Senate. Are the requirements the same? Can I take on the Senate without fighting the other 2 factions?

I'm quessing that if you attack another roman faction you will be the enemy of all of them.

If you attack the senate you will be outlawed and all of the roman factions will be your enemies.

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Originally Posted by The Tuffen

I'm quessing that if you attack another roman faction you will be the enemy of all of them.

If you attack the senate you will be outlawed and all of the roman factions will be your enemies.

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Fair enough, but are the requirements to attack the 2 non-Senate factions the same as that to attack the Senate?

I think so. You need 8 people points, for lack of a better term.

Yep. After a while you will get a message pop up and say that you have enough support from the people to attack the rest of rome.

Here's another question. If you're playing as a non-Roman faction and a Roman faction gets powerful enough, does the Civil War start or does it only occur when the player is Roman?

Heres how it works:

SPOILER ALERT

You need to conquer at least 30 provinces, I dont think the people or senate meter matters. It might have been a coincidence that I was able to start a civil war at 30, but my people meter was only 7 bars, so its not that cause my people meter was 7 for a long time. BUt as soon as I hit 30 it gave me a message. You get a message, then you can take your time to build up your strength for the power grab. As soon as you attack another roman faction, the senate outlaws you and you are cut off from rome. This ignites the other two factions into fighting against you. I havnt seen the other 2 roman factions fighting eachother so I dont know if they ever do. But they are both attacking me aggressively. I wiped out the senate fast so they dont give them bonuses for completing missions against me. In all, be ready... cause once you start a civil war your trade goes down considerably due to no longer trading with the other romans. IF you want to be cheap, station large forces around all the other romans major citys and them attack all at once. It is pretty exciting though to do the civil war, knowing you no longer have that cushion of roman support to lean back on... that the world is now big and empty and lonely... Good luck.

I reckon 30 provinces is about right. It happened to me around that number although i waited a few years to really strengthen my armies.

So I need 30 provinces and/or 8 popularity points with the people to fight either Senate or Roman Factions?

Thanks Tuffen and King Azzole!

Why create the civil war....... instigate it. I figured it was bad mojo to attack an ally. So what did I do I camped armies outside some of the other factions cities then took my diplomat and told told those guys they no longer were my ally, no longer had trade rights and no longer had military access, unfrtanately I also told the senate the same thing, but at least all Roman factions got outlawed this way. And they were outlawed because they attacked me first or is it normal for the senate to outlaw all factions when the civil war erupts?

Does the human faction have to start it or does any other faction do it when they're big enough? It would suck if the human player always has to start it.

Also, does this mean that the "people points" don't do anything at all? Or can you attack Rome without 30 provinces if you get full ppl points? Also, what does the Senate points do? What happens when you get full Senate points? Do you get to attack other factions with the blessing of the Senate? That would be cool.

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Does the human faction have to start it or does any other faction do it when they're big enough? It would suck if the human player always has to start it.

Also, does this mean that the "people points" don't do anything at all? Or can you attack Rome without 30 provinces if you get full ppl points? Also, what does the Senate points do? What happens when you get full Senate points? Do you get to attack other factions with the blessing of the Senate? That would be cool.

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I'm not sure if the other roman factions will start a civil war as I was the biggest roman faction at the time.

You can kind of get the senates blessing to attack other factions any way. If you send a diplomat to the senate and say you will attack a certain faction sometimes the will give you money (not much) for attacking.

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Originally Posted by The Tuffen

I'm not sure if the other roman factions will start a civil war as I was the biggest roman faction at the time.

You can kind of get the senates blessing to attack other factions any way. If you send a diplomat to the senate and say you will attack a certain faction sometimes the will give you money (not much) for attacking.

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I meant other Roman factions.

sorry thought you ment the non-roman factions. Don't know if they would give you their blessings to attack other romans.

If the other factions start civil wars i'm guessing they would give their blessings but as i've not seen any other roman faction start a civil war i can't say for sure.

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Originally Posted by Plantagenet

So I need 30 provinces and/or 8 popularity points with the people to fight either Senate or Roman Factions?

Thanks Tuffen and King Azzole!

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I think third way is - your popularity with the senate (not fulfiling enough missions) is so low that senate demands your faction leader's suicide. If you refuse - civil war

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Originally Posted by Dark_Magician

I think third way is - your popularity with the senate (not fulfiling enough missions) is so low that senate demands your faction leader's suicide. If you refuse - civil war

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Sounds like that might actually be the most useful method if I want to start it earlier than normal...

I seem to remember that before the game or even demo was out the, it was mentioned that you could win by beingthe friend of Rome and kicking the other two factions' butt (hey he is getting too strong and getting too popular).

Has anyone ever had full or really high popularity points with the senate.
Im just brainstorming but what would happen if the senate picked only your faction for office in the senate, does it mean you control rome??

I mean whats the point of holding office for the senate then? I vagely remember something about being able to win over the people of rome or the senate and taking control of rome without war. Of course the other roman factions must be a different story, its war with them then.

The Senate can outlaw you (like excommunication) I had 12 provinces as the Scipiones, and I tried assassinating a Brutii. They threw me out, everyone was against me.

Luckily, the next turn saw the other two Roman factions being outlawed and I had four-five people points and marched on Rome. Unfortunately I forgot to save. :(

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Originally Posted by Inuyasha12

Has anyone ever had full or really high popularity points with the senate.
Im just brainstorming but what would happen if the senate picked only your faction for office in the senate, does it mean you control rome??

I mean whats the point of holding office for the senate then? I vagely remember something about being able to win over the people of rome or the senate and taking control of rome without war. Of course the other roman factions must be a different story, its war with them then.

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It seems the only good things about offices is that it gives your family members permanent good traits(Ex-officers get bonuses too).

Hmmm.. so if you have to knock out the Stupiditii and the Brainlessii would you not have to take care that they dont become too strong ? What I mean is ..if you just leave them to develop then you will have a much stronger enemy to contend with later ? would they control most of the whole map if you just let them be ?

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Originally Posted by Inuyasha12

Has anyone ever had full or really high popularity points with the senate.
Im just brainstorming but what would happen if the senate picked only your faction for office in the senate, does it mean you control rome??

I mean whats the point of holding office for the senate then? I vagely remember something about being able to win over the people of rome or the senate and taking control of rome without war. Of course the other roman factions must be a different story, its war with them then.

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At one point, I controlled all but two of the offices, and those two were held by the Senate and not by the other factions. I got nothing special beyond what the normal offices grant.

I'm beginning to believe this game was designed with the big "Grab & Battle" ending built-in. As the Julii in my third campaign, I control most of the map, like sixty provinces or something, the rest is split between the other two Romans and some rebels. Been this way every time. The Brutii have stacks and stacks of troops lined up in their remaining Greek provinces. It will prove difficult to handle them all at one time, which almost seems necessary. But they just have to be bankrupt by now, so won't be building more troops. MTW was generally like that, too, with the AI allowing one or two nations to compete until the "conquest phase". Does make it interesting, though.

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Originally Posted by Inuyasha12

Has anyone ever had full or really high popularity points with the senate.
Im just brainstorming but what would happen if the senate picked only your faction for office in the senate, does it mean you control rome??

I mean whats the point of holding office for the senate then? I vagely remember something about being able to win over the people of rome or the senate and taking control of rome without war. Of course the other roman factions must be a different story, its war with them then.

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I've had 8 out of 9 points for the senate and I have at points held all positions of the senate

And nothing special happened??

I mean if the only way of taking rome is war with the senate whats the point of even completing the senate missions(other than not being punished and being rewarded). If popularity with the senate does nothing really in the long run then why waste my time?

Its stupid...

Well if you disobey the senate too much you may find a penalty that will quickly make you the weakest faction

At full support the senate considered me "Romulus reborn" and a true example of a roman, but that didnt let me attack my fellow romans. Support of the peasants seems to matter more than the Senate oddly enough.

Just to let you guys know I managed to trigger the civil war at just over 25 settlements captured (I got 8 people points).

But a word of warning if you do this and attack your allies pretty soon the whole world will want to declare war on you after the Roman faction are gone. After my relatively short Brutii civil war there a lots of rebel ships in the Med left over from the senate and other factions so make sure you can deal with them.

My campaign is a real fight for survival now as I am at war with Numidia, Carthage, Gaul, Britons, Thrace, Pontus, Armenia and Egypt.

I felt real betrayed by the Britons and the Egyptians, given they were my allies. I can only assume that by attacking the senate as ASAP before they outlawed me, caused them all to think I was an untrustorthy ally and got opportunistic.

Bah! To hell with the Senate!

It's about 60BC right now and I took my time expanding and securing territory for the Julii family. I have maxed support from the Plebians but the Senate considers me untrustworthy. Never mind that I really try hard to get Senate approval but they keep throwing objectives that are way out of reach for my already extended armies. So, while my support from the commoners was high and support from the Senate low (like Julius Caesar, right?) something happened which I was pretty surprised to see.

The Senate deemed I was a great danger and for the sake of the Republic, demanded my faction leader commit suicide. I agreed and my leader died. I was hoping that this shows my support to the Senate but my rating to them stayed at 1 or 2. Not even 2 years later, they demanded my new, young leader to commit suicide also! That was too far, twice in about 2 years to demand the death of my leaders! I disagreed and the Civil War I was trying to avert begins.

My forces weren't optimally positioned but I have settlements with garrissons in every area. I have all of Asia Minor, Sparta & Corinth, all of the Iberian Peninsula, Memphis, Sardinia, Crete, Cyprus, and several areas in the region of old Assyria and Babylon. The seas will be contested since the Scipii have a very extensive navy. Our troop types are on par with each other but my men are much more seasoned.

I never had any ambitions to overthrow the Republic and become an Emperor. But the Senate had forced me into this and will all pay dearly with my rivals... well, at least I get to fight more often in the desert this time.

Well, you guys seem to have developed a fairly effective hypothesis here on when you can sack Rome and become emperor. Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to me. So I was playing my Brutii game, expanding into Turkey, all that fun stuff. When, the Senate starts giving me impossible missions. I fail a few, and they outlaw me, along with Julii and Brutii. So I said "Screw this," I built 2 strong armies in croton and tarentum and sacked Capua and, you guessed it, Rome. Now about 10 years later (198 bc) I get the message that I now have enough support from the people to take Rome. At this point I have most of Italy. The only thing I can think of is that the SPQR still exists in Palma, I had to give it to em earlier in order to servive (no joke). I just find it extremely funny that it's giving me the option now to sack Rome after it's been cemented in my grasp.