The skirmish AI

Here is a summary of the skirmish AI in this game.

- Run towards edge of map
- Get stuck on edge of map
- Die

Seriously....against anything other than phalanxes my horse archers got slaughtered....when you have 12 units of horse archers, the second the enemy charge them they split up and run in completely different directions and it's completely impossible to keep track of them. Result? Slaughter....

Watching them fight ANY unit they just run for the map edge and get stuck, and then get slaughtered....you end up with a unit on each edge of the map and having to move between them and click like a madman to have any chance of them not just dying....and they choose running for the map edge over far more sensible paths too!

Also I was fighting a Scythian 8 star someone or other, barbarian warlord cavalry or whatever, and after about 5 volleys of 12 horse archers shooting at him his unit lost like 2 men! When any other unit would have been halved....I love this game but little things like this are just so :furious3:

I just needed to come here and rant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GFX707

Here is a summary of the skirmish AI in this game.

- Run towards edge of map
- Get stuck on edge of map
- Die

Seriously....against anything other than phalanxes my horse archers got slaughtered....when you have 12 units of horse archers, the second the enemy charge them they split up and run in completely different directions and it's completely impossible to keep track of them. Result? Slaughter....

Watching them fight ANY unit they just run for the map edge and get stuck, and then get slaughtered....you end up with a unit on each edge of the map and having to move between them and click like a madman to have any chance of them not just dying....and they choose running for the map edge over far more sensible paths too!

Also I was fighting a Scythian 8 star someone or other, barbarian warlord cavalry or whatever, and after about 5 volleys of 12 horse archers shooting at him his unit lost like 2 men! When any other unit would have been halved....I love this game but little things like this are just so :furious3:

I just needed to come here and rant.

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Sounds pretty much the same as MTW skirmish AI.

To have good HA battles you really need to have some serious micromanagement skills.

In MTW the most I could ever do was 6 or 7 units of HA and micro them all - turning the skirmish mode on/off depending on where I was on teh map. You need to use them to draw the enemy all over the map with your view, turning the skirmish mode off gives your HA at least one, sometimes two more volleys at close range which is highly devastating.

Don't trust the AI to win battles for you - do it yourself.

Well at least they skirmish versus ALL units rather than just the ones they are targetting like in MTW....I suppose that's one good thing.

Since I am the parthians horse archers is all I have that isn't completely rubbish at the moment though....

I've had the same problem playing as the Parthians. I have to pause a lot so they won't get slaughtered. I have Persian cavalry right now, though, which makes life a little easier since I can countercharge light cav.

You need to have some extra cavalry escorting those horse archers otherwise enemy cavalry and chariots will chase them all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Spino

You need to have some extra cavalry escorting those horse archers otherwise enemy cavalry and chariots will chase them all over the place.

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that's the point, sometimes ~;)

This is against a scythian army with no cavalry apart from the barbarian warlord I am talking about....it was axemen and archer warbands that were slaughtering them! Besides that I don't see how man on foot with dagger can beat man on horse with dagger!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GFX707

This is against a scythian army with no cavalry apart from the barbarian warlord I am talking about....it was axemen and archer warbands that were slaughtering them! Besides that I don't see how man on foot with dagger can beat man on horse with dagger!

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All I can tell you is that Horse Archers are terrible melee fighters. They're only good for chasing down routers and the occasional desperate charge into the rear/flank of an enemy unit. Anytime they come into physical contact with the enemy expect to lose a bunch. Even chasing down routers can be unusually hazardous for them.

At no point in any battle have I ever charged anyone with horse archers!

They were supposed to be skirmishing!

They get chased to the edge of the map while I am trying to micromanage one of the other 20 fights going on and then they just stand there and get slaughtered by archer warbands!

Try to keep up....

Well it isn't unusal to get low initial kills against Generals Cav as the have two lifepoints. This makes it initally seem that your missiles aren't doing their work.

An extreme example are the Armored Elephants: you can shoot a long time with zero effect, but suddendly you drop them one after the other..

By the way I have little problems to use the RTW horsearchers, playing right now as the Scythians, maybe due to the intensive use of the MTW counterparts. All of them are on AI skirmish. You have to keep a close eye on the tactical "radar" so that you see which unit is getting driven against the border of the map. Micro that manually, put off skirmish and let them run into the map again and put it on auto again.. Far easier compared to MTW were you could use the AI only in very limitated situations...

BTW: A small group of lancers is a incredibly useful addition. The HA break the enemy army up by getting chased so that your fine Lancer squad can take isolated units one by one..

OA

Well the other problem is that I can only just now build cataphracts....

so I guess I should add some to my army.

yeah HA with Cataphracts is a deadly combination, if anyone breaks from the main body of troops you can ride them down very easily

one of the things I'm wondering about HA's is are there some kinds of them like Scythians or whatnot which work like the Boyars in MTW? Where they have decent melee capabilities as well? I loved using up all of my ammo on a unit and then slamming two HA units into either side of the depleted unit at the same time, usually routing them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GFX707

At no point in any battle have I ever charged anyone with horse archers!

They were supposed to be skirmishing!

They get chased to the edge of the map while I am trying to micromanage one of the other 20 fights going on and then they just stand there and get slaughtered by archer warbands!

Try to keep up....

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Hey! :angry: ~:confused:

Relax, take a breath and calm down. I didn't say you were using them to charge, I was just giving you some helpful info. When a unit chases a skirmisher unit towards the map edge (especially the corners) you have to intervene. Sometimes your skirmisher unit avoids getting stuck on a map edge and tries to running along the edge to escape. Many times they'll get stuck doing an indecisive jig and get cornered. You have to keep an eye out for them and be prepared to intervene otherwise kiss them goodbye. There are a few things you can do...

1) Turn Skirmish mode off and run them to a point on the map where they'll have plenty of room to skirmish again. This is hard to do when being chased by melee cavalry. If your horse archers are chased by javelin wielding cavalry turning skirmish mode off will force a war of attrition where eventually the javelin chucking unit will run out of ammo first.

2) Have another cavalry unit intervene. This can sometimes distract the unit giving chase and make them stop to deal with the new threat. This may also cause the chasing unit to route if its flanks are sufficiently threatened.

3) Stop and charge the unit chasing them. If you're dealing with a light infantry unit (preferably skirmishers) you can turn the table by making them retreat all over the map. Turn off skirmish mode and charge the bastards. If you don't think you can take them in melee attempt to run through them and re-enable skirmish mode when most of the unit has broken through. It's always risky, it depends who is chasing your unit.

Thanks for the tips....I think I'll quit playing parthia though because Egypt is just too damn powerful....I holed up in Selucia and made sure (by giving away provinces and protectorating) that it was the only province bordering them and every turn they send an army of 1000 to besiege it! Most of the time I destroy them completely when they assault but Eastern Infantry are absolutely pathetic!

Finally they sent their 8 star faction leader and I was left holding the square with about 50 men....along comes mr. faction leader, I charge him with a group of 10 archers and he routs! Then I chase him with my general and he dies....VERY lucky, I won with 50 troops left from 1000....but I am getting poorer and Egypt are getting richer and they just keep pouring troops in :(

I wish Parthia had some infantry....

I was lucky that by the time Egypt attacked me, I already had Antioch. That and the Seleucid practice dummies were giving me high valor troops. My horse archer units were around 3-4 valor at the time and I was able to start building Persian Cavalry. I also used lots of mercs. After the first fight, I didn't bother controlling the infantry and just let them stand there in the fight and maybe soak up some arrows or get thrown in a pinch.

I'd just retrain my wounded horse archers and persian cavalry afterwards and conquer another territory waiting for the next attack. I'd also make peace and trading rights with the Egyptians since I needed the trade money with them. They'd also gain money but I was more broke and needed it more. After I conquered Palmyra and Damascus, I didn't bother making peace and started conquering Sidon then Jerusalem. Sidon, then Jerusalem got plague and they left Jerusalem undefended so I just grabbed it. Finally, they made the mistake of sending 2 stacks with slightly over 10 units instead of a 20-unit stack and I was able to pick them off one by one with fewer casualties.

I have a few horse archers and Persian cavalry that have 2-3 silver chevrons. I think I may even have a few that have gold chevrons already.