Fighting all cavalry armies (RTW)

Hello all,

Well, this is my first post, though I have been lurking and learning here for a few months. ~:)

I just got into MTW a few months ago and was having a blast, when along came RTW. I had to have it! This is my favorite time period of warfare with the Romans, Greeks, Carthage, etc. All of the things I disliked about MTW were fixed in RTW (like the game-boardishness of the strat map), and I had not quite become expert with the controls, so I had few issues adjusting to RTW's battles.

Anyway, to my question. I have been playing a Brutii campaign on VHard/Medium, and I have made the mistake of not keeping Macedon off balance and allowing them to build up some respectable full stack armies. Several of these armies consist of almost entirely light lancers, versus my predominantly hastati and velite armies. To make a long story short, I got my hat handed to me by lots and lots of horsies. :embarassed:

My question is, what is an effective way for the Roman factions to deal with VERY cavalry heavy armies? :help:

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. ~;)

hiya Upward, welcome to the land of the lurkless (that's got to be in the OED somewhere)

I know for sure there are people who could help with this better than I. The only survival technique I've found is to bait them into an all-out charge with velites. The AI will sometimes fall for this, in which case you just let them smack into your front (keep your infantry bunched tight and as deep as you can), and they'll get cut down quickly.

Other than that, keep your back against trees or a cliff, be very scared of being flanked... and pray they don't have blasters. :surrender:

make a circle of hasati and set them to guard mode, they will do suicide charges into your lines. they generally run away after about 20 secs of real fighting.

leave your roman infantry on fire at will, the roman javelins are very good at killing horsies, i found even when they get charged and continue to throw their javelins they cause more damage, not allways but alot. anyways the first volley of javelins helps to stall the charge

use town people or what ever thay are called in front of the hastings and use the skineriser to lure the calvery in to the town peoples spears (while town people deal with horses hastings throw pumas) if any calvery get through be quick to attack with hastings before he his back of town people

Well, on the theory that poachers make good gamekeepers ...

I'm pretty much a cavalry player, although I'm more into missile cavalry than melee.

I'd form a square, especially if it was a defensive battle. I'd also put some good, potent long-ranged missile troops in the middle of it. The deployment controls and options in RTW are excellent.

There's also the option of doing what the Romans did: Build a fort at the end of every march. Build a fort. Advance and build another fort, and so forth until you are within striking distance of an enemy town. Besiege it, forcing the cavalry to attack you. Form up in a square and dare them to come get you.

i think he asked how to beat the all calvary army with only the units you can produce in the start.

i tested my town watch and hasting line against light lances and if you use 10 town watch 9 hastings and make the doble line long very long so the calvery cant flank you and use 1 skimisher to lurer them in in will work
i would post the screen shoots but i dont know how

The only good ways I found to beat them were by building my own cav ASAP. I had trouble with those same lancer heavy armies. Once I beat them the slow phalanx armies were a walkover. I focused on producing equites. Use any merc archers you can to cause trouble for the cav, and be ready to throw in your general unit to rout some of the lancers too. You can usually find some merc hoplites that can help keep the lancers at bay. They might not stop them, but they do tend to bog them down. I play on very hard/very hard and the cav just chew up my hastati/principes that way. Interestingly, I think the looser velite formations do better at bogging cav down for a bit longer.

Smoothiemaker - I am pretty sure that Town Watch don't have spears in the sense of getting anti-cav bonuses (unlike, say, Triarii). As such, I am not sure they are worth bringing to the battle.

I haven't faced all cav armies in RTW, but had similar trouble as Almohads vs cav heavy Byzantines in MTW. One lesson I learned painfully was the value of attrition - you don't necessarily have to win the first battle, just try to kill as many of the heavy cavalry as possible. Missiles may be best here - sell the lives of your heavy infantry as dearly as you can while all the time throwing every pilum and arrow at them as you can. Often the AI cavalry chase routers, so your missiles have a little more time before they are targeted themselves. Weaken them, then battle the same stack again. Sort of WW2 Soviet tactics. As Stalin said, "quantity has a quality all of its own".

Trying to funnel them into a bridge or woods battle would be a life saver, of course - as folk who have battled the Horde in MTW will tell you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

I'm pretty much a cavalry player, although I'm more into missile cavalry than melee.

---

In my lurking I have noticed that. ~:) In fact, I have really benefited from reading your posts on HA both in MTW and RTW. How do you think Equites stack up to the other light cav? For ex, the Macedonian light lancers? I would really like to have some HAs but Rome just isn't "with it" lol.
I did get some Numidian Cav when I was on a Senate mission down near Thapsus, but they are a little worn down at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

There's also the option of doing what the Romans did: Build a fort at the end of every march. Build a fort. Advance and build another fort, and so forth until you are within striking distance of an enemy town. Besiege it, forcing the cavalry to attack you. Form up in a square and dare them to come get you.

---

Interesting idea. I can't believe I never thought of that. I have built forts at choke points to keep the direction my cities are attacked from predictable, but never thought of just "camping out" every turn with my conquering armies. That does bring up a point though. What conditions disallow you from building a fort an/or watchtower? I had a fort in one place on the map (near Larissa on the way to Thermon) and abandoned it for some reason. A couple turns later I tried to build it in the same place and I could not. I am positive I had enough denarii. Is there an enemy proximity limit or something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

Smoothiemaker - I am pretty sure that Town Watch don't have spears in the sense of getting anti-cav bonuses (unlike, say, Triarii). As such, I am not sure they are worth bringing to the battle.

I haven't faced all cav armies in RTW, but had similar trouble as Almohads vs cav heavy Byzantines in MTW. One lesson I learned painfully was the value of attrition - you don't necessarily have to win the first battle, just try to kill as many of the heavy cavalry as possible. Missiles may be best here - sell the lives of your heavy infantry as dearly as you can while all the time throwing every pilum and arrow at them as you can. Often the AI cavalry chase routers, so your missiles have a little more time before they are targeted themselves. Weaken them, then battle the same stack again. Sort of WW2 Soviet tactics. As Stalin said, "quantity has a quality all of its own".

Trying to funnel them into a bridge or woods battle would be a life saver, of course - as folk who have battled the Horde in MTW will tell you.

---

the town watch dont have a calvary bonace but thay are like warbands or eastern spearmen and they do have spears so in a charge against them the first wave of calvary will die. the seconde wave will be hit will the hastings pumas. use your flanks to in close the calvery in a semi circle and you will win

Hey, Upward Mobility. Sorry the reply was so long in coming. Been busy the past couple of days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Upward Mobility

How do you think Equites stack up to the other light cav? For ex, the Macedonian light lancers? I would really like to have some HAs but Rome just isn't "with it" lol.
I did get some Numidian Cav when I was on a Senate mission down near Thapsus, but they are a little worn down at this point.

---

Mediocre, but better than nothing. They're the best available option.

I've shelled out for merc cav, even as the Parthians. The acquisition cost is steep but the maintenance cost is OK.

Quote:

---

What conditions disallow you from building a fort an/or watchtower? I had a fort in one place on the map (near Larissa on the way to Thermon) and abandoned it for some reason. A couple turns later I tried to build it in the same place and I could not. I am positive I had enough denarii. Is there an enemy proximity limit or something?

---

It sure does seem like you can't build one in an enemy's zone of control. Select a unit of yours. The red area within the green movement area show enemy zones of control.

Another way to contend with armies with superior cavalry is to use pure cavalry "screening" units of Equites on the strategic map. If there's a mixed enemy army of infantry and cavalry, use your cavalry units to "block." Withdraw from the battle. Pure cavalry with enough movement points will get away.

Here's an old M:TW trick works well with the Romans, although it's to micro-intensive for many multi-players.

String the triarii out in a long line only two ranks deep. That's as wide as they'll go. If possible, micro them to run and charge the enemy cavalry. Don't forget to use "rally" if they start to weaken.

There is no rank bonus for triarii. There is a charge bonus. Getting as many spearpoints as possible in the front line makes the most of that bonus.

If possible, have an equally thin line of hastati behind the triarii. Have the hastati throw their javelins over the heads of the triarii after the triarii have the enemy cavalry locked and stationary in melee.

Having a triarii line only two ranks deep minimizes the friendly fire problem. If you want, turn off "fire at will" for the hastati and micro them as close to the cavalry as you can.

After a toss or two of javelins, have the hastati charge the cavalry too.

=============

I did this all the time in M:TW with Muwahid and Murabitin infantry. I tried it tonight on grassy flatlands, hard, with the Roman units and destroyed a Carthaginian Long Shields unit. The enemy general was one of the last units to die, routing the remainder with two horsemen left.There were 20 triarii and 55 hastati left. I'm sure that can be improved with practice.

urban cohort form testudo