Overpowered units.

Well this is more of a poll than an actual whining about units being overpowered. I didnt make it a poll because there are so many units to chose from that it would be extremely painful to have them all listed in here.

So, state your best unit, faction, difficulty level, and also the unit you are most disappointed with. All just for statistical purposes.

There I go:
:charge: Best unit playing Julii medium/Hard: Hastati (I havent got yet to the Marian reforms). They are fast allround infantry, armed with spears, good in hand to hand and quite cheap. About 50% of my armies are Hastati.


:surrender:Worst unit (same campaign): Triarii. I expected them to be an almost unbeatable unit, knowing they were the last resource of the roman armies and delivered the last punch and heaviest punch to the enemy. But when I saw a unit of triarii blocking a gate 4-deep and in hold ground broken by a frontal charge of gaul cavalry (they broke formation and then all was carnage).... That made me lose the town and the faith in my Triarii.

Well theres my opinion.

As Julii, I found wardogs a little too good. Someone said they are all you need to fight Gauls and it is not far from the truth. They kill most unarmoured stuff and nicely tie up heavier stuff for a while. I think the broken thing about them is the regeneration - if they died, the player would save them for when they were really needed and for pursuit.

Of the historical units, I would vote for archers as most impressing me with their power - they are amazing. Three units can machine gun down a large infantry army sallying out from a city gate.

I can't say I am that disappointed with any unit, although I did hire a unit mercenary Greek hoplites and found them too slow to be useful as an anti-cav troubleshooter - but then most things in RTW are... They were also rather vulnerable. I would have preferred something like the halberdiers in MTW - slow, but very tough. Maybe the armoured hoplites are like that?

overpowered, hmm I think Urban Cohorts are overpowered, they have no restrictions on building like Spartan Hoplites (only Sparta and Syracuse) and can totally replace Legionary Cohorts in the army. And they pwn everything. Maybe if they could only be trained in the Roman home provinces they would be better balanced. Most cavalry is a bit too cheap as well I think.

Overpowered faction - EGYPTIANS!!!!!!!!!!

I also vote for archers, particularly horse archers. In my Dacian campaign, I recruited a unit of Scythian archers and used them to annihilate whatever unit guards the town square. The AI is VERY stupid defending towns and the fact that you can park an archer unit and maul down a unit simply standing there is beyond me.

I have to disagree on Hastati. They become fodder for the falxmen and chosen swordsmen. In one town siege, the Romans broke my walls in two places, but 4 units of Hastati on each couldn't even move my chosen swordsmen. Hastati are a good unit, but by no means overpowering.

Elephants are pretty amazingly powerful. They slice like a knife through butter even Hoplites and mince the heavy cavalry.

Then again, I have logged many hours playing this game and since I play personally all battles, I might have gotten a bit more experience than the AI. Also, with so many battles, my generals tend to reach 10 stars rather quickly, at which point they can win even with an army of peasants.

There is nothing wrong with archers. If anything, they are too weak.

The only units that need to be fixed are cavalry.

I dont think any unit is overpowered.
I fought elephants ...tough but i managed.
Urban cohorts need 2 turns to build and thier stats arent much better then legionary, they are more expensive too.
If you got a army of urbans...thats a lot of time and money...

Wardogs are awesome vs. unarmoured poor gauls. But try them on hvy infantry aka greek phalanx and u see how good they really are...
Gaul warbands...I dont think I know a weaker unit in game beside peasants..specialy without a general and the AI often comes without one.

Overpowered - many Egyptian units, cavalry charge bonus

Underpowered - most spear units and most phalanxes especially against cavalry

funny thing I saw on decisive battles. Archers will tear up chariot archers. Due to the fact that when the charioteers get shot down there horses fall, the chariots crash..... making it a big traffic jam and there only counter is to regroup and try to charge again only to get jammed up aging by broken chariots and dead horses.


In decisive battles it was said the hitites tried to regoup 4 times and everytime the archers would break them up from a productive charge against them.

Also when they assaulted they got bogged down due to the tents and all the Egyptians did was grab there hair and slit there throats.

As far as gameplay chariots need to be toned down.

Facts ... chariot archers could shoot accurately at fast speeds(the chariot would just glide over the bumps). If they were going slow every bump would be felt.

Where the problem comes is that they have excellent accuracy at max distance = false

It was tested some guys made a replica of an Egyptian chariot with an experienced archer. When the horses were at full gallop the archer could fire very accurately but at slow speeds the target was consistantly missed due to the chariot giving a rough ride.

So the problem is chariots can just sit still pluck there targets away like a sniper when in fact they closed in on the infantry. # 1 they were close giving great accuracy # 2 they were'nt under fire casuing thre chariots to be broken up.


Since it seems that it is not programmed in the game that distance is not related to accuracy at least not enough. Chariots should be worth nada at a distance but when risking melee should be very accurate.

The other problem (same as elephants) is that they seem to make their unit size overwhelming. In game there are 24 elephants to a unit on huge settings. Unfortanately 24 elephants is what would be going against 20'000 troops. So yes the elephants are possibly accurate but since the infantry have been toned down in size the elephants also should have been.

Imagine 1000 elephants on the battlefield !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hannibal could have possibly been a moron and still won if he had 1000 elephants

Too many problems come from chariots and it seems the Egyptian chariots are jsust to overwheliming.

I've played against the Britons and there chariots did'nt seem to powerful to mess up gameplay but Egyptian chariots are just overwhelmingly to powerful

I havent really been too sucessfull on SP yet(takes ages), but having played MP, Urban Cohort are the best Roman infantry unit in the game i belive, stat wise. But very expensive, i agree.

At the moment in SP on highest difficulty(anything less is a waste of playing the game imo), I have also found the Egyptians to be very strong, and even their light cavalry kicking my heavy cavalry's ass is annoying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

As Julii, I found wardogs a little too good. Someone said they are all you need to fight Gauls and it is not far from the truth. They kill most unarmoured stuff and nicely tie up heavier stuff for a while. I think the broken thing about them is the regeneration - if they died, the player would save them for when they were really needed and for pursuit.

Of the historical units, I would vote for archers as most impressing me with their power - they are amazing. Three units can machine gun down a large infantry army sallying out from a city gate.

I can't say I am that disappointed with any unit, although I did hire a unit mercenary Greek hoplites and found them too slow to be useful as an anti-cav troubleshooter - but then most things in RTW are... They were also rather vulnerable. I would have preferred something like the halberdiers in MTW - slow, but very tough. Maybe the armoured hoplites are like that?

---

Most of my armies as the Greek Cities comprise roughly 50% archers and 50% hoplites/armoured hoplites. With a ring of hoplites around 8 units of archers you are practically unbeatable. It doesn't matter if hoplites are slow because nothing can outrun an arrow anyway! It's like a portable omaha beach

I would not say that archers are "overpowered", just the same in MTW but more effective because less units are so heavily armoured! Watch archers versus peasants in MTW if you don't believe me.

Elephants are overpowered. Javelins should be effective against them, but in one of my games two units of velites threw all their javelins to the worst elephant and not one died (elephants that is, my velites got some serious ass whooping after that). Now i modded them a little, less hitpoints and less armour, but they are still very strong.

Yutseb Elephants the only unit you ever need.

They are brutal and Virtually destroyed an entire Thracian army in Custom battle they killed around 700 men losing only 3 elephants

But aren't those an easter egg?

As for over powered units, I have not found one unit to be too powerful. Then again, I haven't really fought elephants. The egyptains were easy though.

British Head Hurlers , Urban Cohorts should cost more, Chariots are abit over powered aswell, Horse Archers could be weaken a little by reducing their arrows perhaps, egyptian axe men over powered and last but not least Cav should not be able to brake spear or phalanx units head on.

The upkeep of cavalry units is too low; for ex: Roman cavalry only have an upkeep of 110 dinarii. You can argue that the unit size is only 54 men (on huge), but then you have 54 horses, so you should have upkeep costs that are higher than or at least in the range of a legionary cohort (210). Same deal with praetorian cavalry (upkeep = 240) vs. a praetorian cohort (upkeep = 320).

You could extend this argument to the other factions, but I would suggest letting the nomadic steppe factions with lots of cav have a lower average upkeep. This would reflect their better care for horses and easy access to grazing lands.

Urban Cohorts should only be built in Roma.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by metatron

Urban Cohorts should only be built in Roma.

---

thats a good idea man.

I'm loving Cretan (sp?) Archers. I had a line of Pricipes and Hastati in one battle, with three units ot these archers behind them, two ranks deep. The enemy army was about a 800 strong, and so was mine (ish). Their army never made melee contact with mine-the archers routed them. It was like a musket line in Shogun-they routed, rallied, moved back at my army again, routed, and so on. After the third rout they didn't come back-my cavalry charged after them and killed the remainder.

Final kills: 800 to 15. My 15 came partly from friendly fire (I had one unit of archers far too close to my Hastati) and a couple from casulties in the cavalry when they chased down the routers.

I love those archers, man. Huge range, too.

I won't be original, but the Egyptian forces as a whole are overpowered.
Not only are they VERY good at fight, but above all, they are dirt cheap. Really DIRT CHEAP. Just look at the prices of the chariots, bowmen, spearmen and axemen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete

overpowered, hmm I think Urban Cohorts are overpowered, they have no restrictions on building like Spartan Hoplites (only Sparta and Syracuse) and can totally replace Legionary Cohorts in the army. And they pwn everything. Maybe if they could only be trained in the Roman home provinces they would be better balanced. Most cavalry is a bit too cheap as well I think.

Overpowered faction - EGYPTIANS!!!!!!!!!!

---

I think they aren't so overpowered because it takes two turns to make them. I'm sure two Legionaries can take out one Urban.

but take alook at every other faction. Practically every advanced seleucid unit takes two turns to build. Spartan hoplites (the closet thing to Urban Cohorts, which they still beat) take two turns to build, and can only be built in Sparta and Syracuse, and cost 1150 bucks to build. Take a look at every other factions super unit, which Urban Cohorts beat (apart from maybe Elephants) and how much they cost. 890 bucks or whatever it is for Urban Cohorts is just too cheap, and I still think there should be restrictions on where they are built (like only the starting provinces). This would be more historically accurate too.

Additionnally, two turns to build isn't a problem, except in times of urgency.
A big part of the game, is to precisely balance the number of units you have, with your income, to not become bankrupt. That you need one or two turns to produce a unit is, most of the time, irrelevant, as you won't produce units non-stop anyway.

Hi
I read somewhere that all the unit´s experience adds to attack. (is that right). So If I have a unit of Hastati with exp 7 that means they get 7+ original attack. Does it also add up to the charge bonus?


I started focusing on this because yestarday I got the necessary technology to start using Principes as a building block of my armies. But I realized that if a unit of principes charging against gallic warbands got 57 kills and 7 losses, the unit of Hastati (hardened veterans that conquered Gaul from the meditterranean to Belgium, exp 7-8), got 71 kills and 10 losses, against the same foe.

They die faster, that I understand as they have less armor, but their attack is said to be equal in the in-game scrolls.

BTW, ballistae are great! Its just amazing how entire ranks get bounced backwards when that thing hits the formation. I park them on the bridges with a couple of principes and 2 archer units, and thats carnage. :charge:

The longer it takes you to field an army, the longer the enemy has to build its own. If you blitz greece or rome or egypt in the early game, they just aren't that powerful -- dispersed and low tech forces always lose to one concentrated force.

If you expand aggressively, money is never a problem beyond the very early game. I DO build units non-stop; i don't have enough troop producing buildings to spend all my money.

Urbans take too long to reach (pop 24k isn't easy to reach in most provincs0, and take too long to build. Throw in the stamina bug, and it's hard to argue they're overpowered in the campaign. Legionary over urban is a perfectly reaosnable choice, especially for the brutii.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akka

Additionnally, two turns to build isn't a problem, except in times of urgency.
A big part of the game, is to precisely balance the number of units you have, with your income, to not become bankrupt. That you need one or two turns to produce a unit is, most of the time, irrelevant, as you won't produce units non-stop anyway.

---

roman infantry are supposed to be the best in the game. Thus you see armenian and other legionaries with equal stats to legionary cohort, yet requiring a higher level barracks and 2 turns to produce.

if you compare urbans to legionary cohort, then it's not so clear that urbans are overpowered. The lower attack makes a big diffenrece, but infantry should not be your main killing force in any event.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete

but take alook at every other faction. Practically every advanced seleucid unit takes two turns to build. Spartan hoplites (the closet thing to Urban Cohorts, which they still beat) take two turns to build, and can only be built in Sparta and Syracuse, and cost 1150 bucks to build. Take a look at every other factions super unit, which Urban Cohorts beat (apart from maybe Elephants) and how much they cost. 890 bucks or whatever it is for Urban Cohorts is just too cheap, and I still think there should be restrictions on where they are built (like only the starting provinces). This would be more historically accurate too.

---

Well a good idea would be to not be able to train UC. Just to take 2 Praetorian Cohorts and retrain them to 1 UC.