Rome Unit Guide v1.1 released!

Hi,

I just released version 1.2.

Get it here: http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/index.php?mod=108

---------------------------------Version History-------------------------------
Version 1.2 (released 19 October)
*Corrected stats for Chosen Swordmen (all factions) and Chosen Archer Warband (Dacia)
*Added pages for the mercenary units available in Singleplayer, and for Slave and Rebels
Version 1.1 (released 18 October)
*First complete release of the Unit Guide, including some changes to the Roman Section
Version 1.0 (released 14 October)
*Prelimenary release of the Unit Guide, included only the Roman Factions

Version 1.0 was downloaded 429 times!
Version 1.1 was downloaded 1266 times!
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It now list ALL units in the normal (non modded) game, with the non-modded basic stats (of RTW v1.1). So if you modded some units, the numbers may be off.
It's 22 pages in total, including an introduction and Revision History+Contact page.

It lists all the buildable units per faction, per category, and has unit icons for easy reference for all the units. It includes all the basic stats of units (attack, total armor, charge bonus, secondary weapon attack, building requirement, turns to build, costs to produce and upkeep, and all special abilities).

Some of the special abilities are heavily abbreviated due to lack of space, but they should not be too difficult. The bracketed number + letter T behind cost indicate that a unit needs more then one turn to be build, with the respective number. If it says "NA" you can never build the unit, but you can get it through other means (like hiring with mercenaries, and senate mission with first cohorts and so on)
The best thing: it's only 1 page per faction! (except the Roman factions, because they have 2 technology trees, thus.. for them; 1 page Pre-Marius, and one page Post-Marius)

http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=108

This cost me the most of my weekend, so any comments are appreciated ~:).
Cheers and enjoy!

Soulflame

Version 1.0 was downloaded 429 times!

PS. There is also an Excel version of this file available shortly after this. DO NOT GET THE EXCEL FILE UNLESS YOU HAVE ALTERED SOME UNIT STATS YOURSELF. It's not pretty to look at, and it's lot bigger, which makes your download longer, and consumes a lot more bandwith from the hostsite.

PS2. If someone has a large mod and want me to make a similar unit guide for their mod, I'd be happy to do it, just contact me through the ways I explain in the pdf.

PS3. There is no PS4. ~;p

*raises a pint to soulflame*

Great work! ~:cheers:

Oh and before anyone asks, my name is indeed Harold Marcus (well, those my baptist first names). I thought it looked nice ~;p

It's good! :p

So Macedonia can build Creeeessshian archers huh? Are they similar to the Cretan archers that can be found around the aegean sea area.

this is a very nice guide. thanks for the work.

One thing I spotted, however: chosen swordsmen take only 1 turn to produce, not 2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lars573

So Macedonia can build Creeeessshian archers huh? Are they similar to the Cretan archers that can be found around the aegean sea area.

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Yeah, but they sound funnier ~;p. But they can't build them. All dark green units are mercenaries. I added them so you can use this guide for multiplayer as well, since the stats for multiplayer are the same as for single player (for now. There is a seperate entree for multiplayer cost, but so far all costs in SP and MP are the same)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dorkus

this is a very nice guide. thanks for the work.

One thing I spotted, however: chosen swordsmen take only 1 turn to produce, not 2.

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Thanks, ~:) I corrected it (along with the Dacian Chosen Archer Warband, which also only takes 1 turn to build).
There will probably be a few more errors in the guide, so I'll wait a bit until I upload the new version.

So far this new version has been downloaded over 500 times ~:).

The Excel file was already approved but I put it in the Medieval section by accident. It's corrected now, and downloadable here:
http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/index.php?mod=117

Nice work Soulflame

Excellent job, Soulflame :bow:

This will make my life easier :book: ~:cool:

One thing that would be worth adding, if you plan to do any more additions to the guide, is armor/shield.

I'm fairly certain that missiles test against armor factor, and that shield is removed from defense/armor if attacked/shot in the flank/rear. At least that's the way it worked in mtw, and from casual observation, it seems that's the way it's working in rtw.

Great job :bow:

The cretian Archers part is pretty funny ~D btw there are some unbuildable/unrecruitable units it would be cool if you added them if you had any plans to update the guide ~:)

Again thanks for the guide its great :bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dorkus

One thing that would be worth adding, if you plan to do any more additions to the guide, is armor/shield.

I'm fairly certain that missiles test against armor factor, and that shield is removed from defense/armor if attacked/shot in the flank/rear. At least that's the way it worked in mtw, and from casual observation, it seems that's the way it's working in rtw.

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Yeah I know... and defensive skill is also only applicable in some instances.
There are only 2 'problems':
1. Space: I already used hearts to show HP, and there isn't much room left. Maybe I could abbreviate Defense into Def or something. But it wouldn't be pretty and I couldn't even add all the info that the guide doesn't use at the moment I think.
2. Cleanness/Easyness to use: Right now, you know what the guide represents. If I add an amor rating... should I substract it from the total defense amount, so that you must add them together yourself to get the total defense? Or should I leave the listed total defense the same but just let you know how much the shield is? Would people then maybe accidentally add those 2 numbers together?

I think I could make some people happy with it, but some other would be confused or think it's just extra stuff they don't need... Other things that aren;t included in the guide are for example the rider stats for chariots and elephant riders. They also have hp and defense and such, but I don't think it is used (never seen a riderless chariot or elephant in the game), and the costs for retraining the units weapon/shield if an upgrade is availble in a city. These stats might all be worth something to some people, but I think it could destroy the purpose of the guide: a clean, one glance overview, with only 1 page per faction.

So I'm really not sure about this. I would like to hear more opinions on this: should the guide be more specific? (at the possible cost of space and ease of use)?
In the meantime, I could whip up a special version just for you and send it by mail? (or maybe better; you could download the excel version and completely customize your version as you please)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by faisal

Great job

The cretian Archers part is pretty funny btw there are some unbuildable/unrecruitable units it would be cool if you added them if you had any plans to update the guide

Again thanks for the guide its great

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I'm not sure which units you mean. The units I listed are all the units available to build and mercenaries and generals those factions can have in multiplayer (with the added costs and such for singleplayer as well).

Maybe you mean a page solely for mercenaries at the end so you can see the stats of all the mercenaries you can hire in Singleplayer? I didn't put them in with all factions, because that would be a pointless repeat for each faction which would greatly increase the length of the guide. But a seperate page for all the mercenaries in the game would certainly be doable...

I was thinking something along the lines of TD/TA/S.

TD = Armor + Shield + Skill (Currently labeled as defense)
TA = Armor + Shield
S = Shield

TA is what you would look to to determine a unit's vuljnerability to missiles. S would be relevant to determine whether a unit is especailly vulnerable to flank/rear attacks.

One other thing: I believe chariots use the primary defense stat, despite the fact that the secondary one is listed in the in-game descriptions. If they truly had armor zero and 1 defense, they would drop like flies to arrows, even with extra hp. And they wouldn't hold up for a second in a melee. In other words, I believe the relevant line for scythed chariots is:

stat_pri_armour 18, 1, 0, metal (19 total)

And for Egyptian chariots:

stat_pri_armour 6, 1, 4, metal (11 total)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dorkus

I was thinking something along the lines of TD/TA/S.

TD = Armor + Shield + Skill (Currently labeled as defense)
TA = Armor + Shield
S = Shield

TA is what you would look to to determine a unit's vuljnerability to missiles. S would be relevant to determine whether a unit is especailly vulnerable to flank/rear attacks.

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Hmm if I could find icons to illustrate these different stats it would be helpfull. I'll try to make it like this and see how it looks.

Quote:

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One other thing: I believe chariots use the primary defense stat, despite the fact that the secondary one is listed in the in-game descriptions. If they truly had armor zero and 1 defense, they would drop like flies to arrows, even with extra hp. And they wouldn't hold up for a second in a melee. In other words, I believe the relevant line for scythed chariots is:

stat_pri_armour 18, 1, 0, metal (19 total)

And for Egyptian chariots:

stat_pri_armour 6, 1, 4, metal (11 total)

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That would be odd, since the first stat is for the rider, not for the chariot itself. And this is the same with the HP of the units. They are seperate for rider and chariot (and elephants, which follow the same model).
So either they have 1 defense and 4 hp, or lots of defense and only 1 hp.
Or the game messes up and combines the defense of the rider (the high defense) with the high hp of the chariot/elephant (more then 1 hp). But that would just be stupid, because why make it that way when you can also make it that the chariot has more defense (instead of giving the rider high defense and linking to his stat when checking in game).


Sidenote: the mercenary page is complete. It lists all available mercenaries in the singleplayer part of the game (although it doesn't say where you can hire them (because I honestly don't know where to find that in the game files), and the recruitment costs varies in game because of the mercenary model)

Should I also make a few pages with all available Slave units? (which include the amazon chariots, Judean Zealots and so forth)

shoot at at a unit of peasants (0 armor) with archer auxilia. Mod in 2 hp if you want to make it more exact.

Try again with chariot archers.

Chariot archers have 2 hp, but that can't account for the vast difference in kill speed. chariot archers die at a rate far closer to units with 10 armor than 0.

I don't know the exact mechanics of chariot/rider hp/def, so I won't even guess. But I do know that chariot archers do not die at a rate even close to resembling 1 total defense, 0 armor.

I just released version 1.2.

Get it here: http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/index.php?mod=108

---------------------------------Version History-------------------------------
Version 1.2 (released 19 October)
*Corrected stats for Chosen Swordmen (all factions) and Chosen Archer Warband (Dacia)
*Added pages for the mercenary units available in Singleplayer, and for Slave and Rebels
Version 1.1 (released 18 October)
*First complete release of the Unit Guide, including some changes to the Roman Section
Version 1.0 (released 14 October)
*Prelimenary release of the Unit Guide, included only the Roman Factions

Version 1.0 was downloaded 429 times!
Version 1.1 was downloaded 1266 times!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


@Dorkus:
Hmm well, until CA discloses how the chariot/rider (and elephant/rider etc) combination works with Defense and HP, we'll never find it out completely.
I'll let them stay as they are now (since that's what the ingame descriptin also says), until CA tells me I'm wrong.

I've encountered so many oddities that I can't even begin to speculate and do something with them.
For example with my latest guide, I added the Slave and Rebels. Almost all their units are shared with at least one faction, but somehow the barbarians share 1 general, and have another Rebel General, while the Eastern rebels don't even have a 'normal slave general'. I honestly don't know when you should expect to encounter which general ...
And for some reason the only roman slaves & rebels that are coded are gladiators, while there are pictures in the slave folder for LOTS of units, like Velites, Hastati and many more. But they just aren't defined in the unit file of Rome, so they can't show up.

Makes you wonder..

Quote:

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I'm not sure which units you mean. The units I listed are all the units available to build and mercenaries and generals those factions can have in multiplayer (with the added costs and such for singleplayer as well).

Maybe you mean a page solely for mercenaries at the end so you can see the stats of all the mercenaries you can hire in Singleplayer? I didn't put them in with all factions, because that would be a pointless repeat for each faction which would greatly increase the length of the guide. But a seperate page for all the mercenaries in the game would certainly be doable...

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I was going to mention the rebel units and such, but you covered them in your latest guide.

And btw thanks for the guide its much more better now :)

Great! ~:cheers: May I link it on our german-speaking board at si-games.com for the german-speaking fans?

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Originally Posted by rolin

Great! ~:cheers: May I link it on our german-speaking board at si-games.com for the german-speaking fans?

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Sure, I don't see why not.